and i bet you think Webb Ellis created the game!

On the same note you could also say if it wasn't for Union there wouldn't have been football

They didn't want to go "independent" they wanted paying for broken time, read the history of the three main professional ball playing sports in this country and you might be surprised!

Correct! This is what most people overlook!

Noooooo! The two sports split apart, one went one way one went the other. Before they split apart it was the same game... Think about it rugby union never turned into rugby league.

It's like evolution, Chimpanzees didn't evolve into humans! They just share a common ancestor.

The Bradford club was formed in 1863 (ignoring the 1907 and 1964 claims) and not 1895.

Before 1895 it played rugby and after 1895 it played rugby. A number of years after 1895, the rugby that Bradford chose to play started to evolve its rules to make it more appealing to spectators. That did not invalidate our pre-1895 history.

The other type of rugby also evolved its rules, but in much smaller ways and essentially remained a players sport, rather than a spectator game.

Watched the RU final today. It was undoubtedly a great occasion but I just found the game totally boring. Would have loved to be able turn over to watch a RL game between Wakefield and Salford.

I just dont understand why they persist with the same basic rules. The scrums last forever and then end up with a penalty. And the last 10mins of the game are a complete anti climax. Endless rucks to wind down the clock until someone can kick the ball into touch. The amount of time spent running or passing the ball is tiny.

Yawnion is the Emperor's New Clothes. The vast majority of people who watch it have no comprehension of the rules. I think most of the players struggle to comprehend them as well. But they are constantly told what a fantastic product it is by some very educated people who mix with the cream of society, supported by their friends in the establishment media. So they confuse grinding immobility with excitment but do not question what is put before them. Try & have a conversation with one of these types, it's impossible, especially if they know you are a league fan. You are not clever enough to appreciate the intricacies of yawnion. A game I played for 5 years.

went to watch rhinos v wakefield on new years day, followed on from carnegie v gloucester, lets just say during the turn around between the games there were plenty of the tweed jacket and polished brogue brigade that couldn't get out of the place quick enough, lest they dare set their eyes on the league game. It was actually quite amusing sitting back and watching them.

Coz it's pants.

Setting aside the years of bigotry, half truths and ignorance (before and after the split in 1895) - even today you only get an oxbridge blue for being named in the starting 13 yet you get one for simply training with the first 15 in Union. I simply find it boring. I suppose it's horses for courses though if you like it good on you. I don't but I also don't like wearing a sweater over my shoulders with the sleaves tied in a knot across my chest.

I'd say that is entirely untrue. Perhaps a handful at best.

If I may chip in? I have tried and tried to get into Union,it just doesn`t work for me,as someone pointed out,the endless rucks,kicking the length of the field to each other,and a bar room brawl.Sorry not for me,but I take nothing away from those who can hack it.

For those who have an interest in how/why the 2 codes diverged, and the circumstances leading up to it, there is no better book than "Rugby's Great Split" by Tony Collins.
The decision to split by some northern clubs was not taken lightly and there are far more complex reasons other than the legendary broken time payments.

The history is interesting and full of what-ifs - particularly how things might have shaped up had the Welsh clubs joined the Northern Union.

As for the game, union produces a lot of quality outside backs (just look at the number of union players we had until the game went professional), and they can put on some great attacking play. However, the game is built around contested possession. That's what allows them to have the endless rucks and mauls, scrums and lineouts. It may be boring, but its what keeps scorelines tight - imagine the All Blacks threequarters vs England at RL, it'd be a massacre.

That would smack of ineqality if the first fifteen actually did any training.

Worth stressing that the history goes back to [ibefore[/i there was any rugby union. The RFU was a short (though important) stage in the history RL which was found lacking and discarded.