The vast majority of the side has been the same every week.

Hence the word maybe -_-

While I'm not making excuses for the poor results the under 20s have been having, consider the players that are now missing from our under 20s side for one reason or another:

Crookes (Sheff)
Finnigan (Sheff)
Hellewell (Wire)
Wardle (Hudds)
G Burgess (Souths)
Olbison (1st team)

Should be doing a bit better than this but remember it's not so much about results as it is providing good players for the 1st team. So far Olbison has come in and looked the part this year so I've no complaints.

This is what Medley said at the fans forum - although you'd hope they start to win a few. From watching the Bull builder the U20 Cas game looked well winnable but thats from the highlights

It was a good game, although when I've seen the U20's this year I seem to get the impression they can't tackle!!

They let teams escape their 20-30m try time far too easily, when a team goes wide, they struggle to slide and they concede "schoolboy" tries.

I think the gulf between U20's and SL is pretty clear for all to see, i wasn't bothered about letting players go out on duel registrations but my mind has changed on that this season, as it must be a step up!

Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.

Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.

Quote Blotto="Blotto"Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.'" to be fair 7 of them are pushing for the 1st team..... not looking to good

Quote Blotto="Blotto"Taken from here: www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results/report?6468 St Helens 36 T: Makinson 2, Atherton, Eastmond, Thompson, Jones G: Makinson 6 Bradford Bulls 14 T: Bateman, Hawthorne, Straughan G: Addy H.T. 24-0 St. Helens : Tommy Johnson; Simon Atherton, Josh Jones, Tommy Makinson, Dan Brotherton; Kyle Eastmond, Ben Karalius; Jordan Hand, Aaron Lloyd, Warren Thompson, Andrew Dixon, Danny Jones, Jordan Case. Subs. Marcus Baines, Joe Bate, Anthony Walker, Joe Greenwood. Bradford : Kyle Williamson; Ethan Hawksworth, John Bateman, Rob Hawthorne, Lewis Straughan; Kyle Briggs, Cain Southernwood; Tom Burgess, Adam O’Brien, Steve Crossley, Iain Sibbitt, James Donaldson, Danny Addy. Subs. Tom Lillycrop, Liam McKay, Lewis Reid, Callum Windley.'" to be fair 7 of them are pushing for the 1st team..... not looking to good

I'd say at least 9 would be fighting for a first team place out of that squad.

The more interesting observation one could make, is when a new Coach comes in they may change the way the teams play by altering the systems of play from the previous Coach which I suspect is the case here, while the the first team squad have had the intensity of pre season to come to grips with the changes, the Academy sides are going to take longer. That said, I would say Royce Simmons hasn't changed too much of what Mick Potter had in place at Stains and that would make it easier all round for them!

Not true actually. Under Potter, even when we had our first choice halfbacks on the pitch, we tended to attack down the middle quite a lot and score many of our tries from within 10m. It became utterly tedious towards the end of the 2009 season. We have been changing in that direction, in spite of our halfback issues, since Simmons took over. We are passing the ball wide more often now, although it is going to take time for the team to readjust.

Simmons has also made it a goal to return our defence to a maximum of around 16 points conceded. We had a terrible defence (for us I mean) by the time last season came around. It was the fourth worst in the league but coming from our starting point it was a massive difference.

In addition, Simmons has trimmed us down considerably. Some of our players have stated in the press this season that Potter liked bulk and some players were uncomfortable with that. Not being the fastest team in the league, the extra weight some of our players were carrying really caused problems last season. In our first friendly, against Widnes, one of the things all fans noticed straight away was how much fitter we appeared and how much more toned. This has led to us no longer giving away points in the second half due to being knackered (and all but James Roby - who is a freak of nature - used to [ilook[/i knackered too).

If you filter those changes down to the u21s, which is what normally happens as I understand it, then there will be changes to our team since Potter's day.

TBH i find this is trotted out when the U20's team isn't doing so well. If you look at the two teams in the league with the most youngsters in their respective squads both have been the stand out junior sides the last few years.