The long term plan is the long term plan for the club, not a particular coach.

Yes McNamara has obviously played a role in it, now that the people who run the club have realised the importance of having a good youth development structure and setup, but it is something that has to be in place irrespective of who the current first team coach is. We can't just stick with someone who isn't doing a very good job of coaching the first team because he happened to be in the post when we started working towards getting the structures back in place.

Leeds and Saints have both had numerous coaching changes in the last few years, but their kids keep coming through, it isn't linked and the idea of it all falling down because the first team coach doesn't make any sense unless, as I suggested a few weeks ago, he is funding it all himself!

We have appointed a number of youth scouts and coaches over the last couple of years who are there to look after this, let them got on with it and hopefully the first team and the club will reap the rewards, not a specific employee.

Still beating the same drum?

At first I considered this to be a curious argument, now I find it downright bemusing. The club is going backwards under McNamara and even if these future stars make it as top RL players then they will no doubt want to leave us to play at a higher level.

Anyway, given McNamara's record with established players, what on earth is there to suggest that he can make stars out of young kids?

OK, as requested, to clarifyBut, there is clearly something very very wrong with this team. I don't think a single poster on here could deny that (even Tiger Beer (and there may well be good reasons why this has to be so) it is inevitable that the finger will point to the coaching staff for at least part of the blame.

With that in mind, I would be ecstatic if the club could secure the services of an experienced, proven and TOUGH coach to come and try and sort out the shambles we see on the field, for the time being at least. Maybe taking some of the load of Macca at least for now. I suspect that with the necessary very lean structure at the club nowdays, Macca has too many responsibilities. I SUSPECT he is not tough enough with the players - and he certainly seems reluctant to drop under-performers - but maybe there are reasons why he can't be? Maybe we have more injuries than we are admitting to (like in 199icon_cool.gif? Maybe Macca IS out of his depth? Maybe we all know jack shît about what really goes on...?

And its all very well for folk to argue that the Bulls must be an attractive proposition to any prospective experienced coach, but why? No sugar daddy; no spare funds (and very tight on what we have); no new stadium (yet) and a track record of failed schemes; major player turnover before next season, much of which will finalise before any new guy can get his hands on things so it could be a couple of years before he can say its "his" squad; ongoing emnity with the Leeds club; collapsing fan base - if you choose to list all the negatives and pass by any positives then its hardly attractive, is it?

Why would an experienced guy risk his reputation and set himself up for a load of grief by coming here? For the challenge? Maybe, but he still has to feed his family. For the money, then? That would be the money we are rather short of then, especially with collapsing gates and any settlement to incumbent staff. Not that the economic realities cut much ice with many people angry with the situation - and, lets be fair, understandably so.

And please don't expect Macca to just walk without any compo - he has HIS family to feed in a very very uncertain profession. He won't have the luxury of just chucking his job in - and I challenge pretty well anyone on here to say they would do differently?

But remember please what Hood said at the Fans' Forum, in response to (my) question about the financial implications of falling gates - not worried about the profitability, but more worried about the cash flow. You don't go bust because you are not making profits; you go bust because you run out of cash. This board inherited a dreadful cash prognosis, and the history books will record how they saved the club and (hopefully) set it on a more sustainable (if unpalatable) financial footing - in my opinion. But all the options I see on here involve expending cash we don't have before we see corresponding cash inflows. How will that work, then?

Can folk on here explain how, as a household, they would find a way of spending a load of cash up front if they had no savings and no appreciable overdraft or other borrowing facilities? Cos that's what you are asking of the club. Anyone got an answer to that? There IS a way, of course - you sell some family silver or cut your expenditure even more - in this case, expenditure on players. It wouldn't be the first time. But what would folk say if or when we saw best players being sold and cheaper replacements? We had a "selling club" thread recently, did we not? Or, of course, you come into an inheritance from a rich relative. Which is basically what happened at clubs like Saints, Wire, Wigan, Hudds, Salford...but where are OUR rich rellies?

Regulars know I have been pedalling this argument for ages. Some, like one unpleasant guy recently, choose to accuse me of forcing my views on others as being the only acceptable view. That's nonsense - if you don't like what I say, don't read it - or better, improve on what I say with better arguments - that stand up financially as well as operationally. I hope there are better arguments, I really do, cos the conclusions I reach from my own arguments thoroughly depress me. I'm desperately hoping some of you guys do have some practicable answers or, more to the point, that the club does. Cos, short of a rich benefactor chucking a load of cash in, or some miraculous improvement on the park, I don't.

But I stress - it is very hard to comment objectively without knowing what is really going on behind the scenes - which I suspect is as always rather more than we are aware of.

But hey, what do I know and what do any of us know?

Great post Adeybull. But we've all continued to go along and pay our money for the last two seasons and seen standards drop. Eventually the Board must recognise that this is not going to continue. If there is a long term plan then the supporters should be let in on it along with milestones. Otherwise, to paraphrase a certain film, when other loyal supporters ask 'What is to become of the club?' the answer will be a loud 'Frankly, I don't give a damn'.

The single most articulate, balanced, all-encompassing and yet concise post on this issue.

(I particularly think the all too real issue of people including Macca needing to earn to exit is a very good one - maybe a few people on here are too indoctrinated in a football world where top players and coaches earn as much in 2 months as many of us earn in a career and can afford to quit easily on points of principle.)

Unless the Club wants to keep the Fans informed the Fans will speculate. It's not for us to come up with answers, that's what the Club pays the Coaching Staff to do. Unfortunatly the Coaching Staff seem devoid of answers despite 2-3 years of learning lessons whilst getting worse. An losing quality Players is the only thing we seem to be any good at. Should the Fans say nothing? Just turn up every week and accept the poor and pathetic performances and excuses?
We pay our money and have a right to speak our minds and vent our anger. How bad have things got when Season ticket holders are seriously considering having a barbeque, party, day out, whatever instead of turning up for a match they have already paid for?

As a fan, hard to argue with any of that. I made the point about a bit more honesty with the fans (as I have done before), and I'm sure you can see from what I said that I am not in any way condoning the current debacle of a position. Of course fans are expected to want to vent their anger - I am no exception in wanting to find someone responsible to bray hell out of. Except, worryingly and like more and more on here, I'm finding I'm just increasingly numb to it all. Both of your last sentences are highly pertinent.

But my point is...what if there ARE no quick-fix answers that the club can realistically afford? All the anger in the world is not then going to fix the problem. What then? That is my real concern. There must BE solutions, but I struggle to that see bringing in an expensive replacement coach is amongst the practicable ones - even if in an ideal world its the one most people now seem to believe is the only solution. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic and we WILL see a new man soon. Or maybe its Catch 22. Only the club can know the answer to that, and they ain't telling.

Adey I've made the point before and I'll make it again. Granted the club may not be able to afford to sack McNamara but the way things are going it will get to the stage tat we simply can't afford not too. The declining drop in gates should be worry enough but what sort have impact is this season going to have on season ticket sales I dread to think. IMO the only way to reengage the general attention of the AN Other fan is too replace the coach this would show that the club has still ambition.

If the Club wants to keep the Fans happy they need to make some changes. Some transparency and honesty would go a long way. Why the reluctance to announce new signings? Other clubs don't have a problem making the announcements early. Announcing all the leavers and waiting until after the season ticket deadlines are over to announce players does nothing to inspire confidence in the Fans.
Maybe the Club should have Fans forums on a more regular basis? One thing's for sure announcing any increase in season ticket prices without offering substantial signings and changes is not going to do improve matters and that is what I think we may be looking at.
I would also really like to see some consequences for all under-performing players, yes Platty is having a run in the reserves but there are more than him taking money under false pretences. If they can't play for pride you'd think winning bonuses would inspire them ( I remember Graham Bradley making some similar statement when asked what inspired a win from a losing position) We have some promising youngsters, let a few of them play each week until the end of the season and not 3 minutes at the end of a losing game.
If all else fails I suggest we have a competition to see who can provide the best in game entertainment. My first suggestion is we all bring Beach Balls to amuse the sleeping masses. Quite a few years ago I did suggest we had a beach party, sand, parasols, barbeques, loud shirts and white legs. The Club seems to have forgotten how to do stuff like this. We used to be inovators as well as a good Team.

If only we could change some of the existing player contracts to make them more performance-related, eh?

I understand that POV entirely. But you yourself have acknowledged (what may be) the Catch-22: can't afford to do it and can't afford not to. What's the answer? I know you don't know, and I sure don't. Does anyone?

Hindsight is a marvelous thing!...... A lot of things have changed and we as a Club don't seem to have adapted very well...
As a very clever person one wrote "Always look on the bright side of life" Maybe that's one for the Band to try this weekend, and if apt at any time ;
"It's time to play the music
It's time to light the lights
It's time to meet the Muppets on the Muppet Show tonight.

It's time to put on makeup
It's time to dress up right
It's time to raise the curtain on the Muppet Show tonight.

Why do we always come here
I guess we'll never know
It's like a kind of torture
To have to watch the show"

The last one seems very apt right now......Maybe I'm being harsh?

A view I'm sure most on here now seem to share. But it still fails to answer the Catch-22 question of how could you replace him if you could not afford to? By which I mean you'd have to shell out cash well in advance of the improved income you expect to get, but you may not have much spare cash to shell out cos every penny is accounted for?

Its not trying to be clever - its a deathly serious question. One that many other non-sports businesses have had to contend with, as a result of first the credit crunch and then the resulting deep recession. And many who could not find the cash to take necessary actions fell, and are falling, by the wayside.