You need [or are able to obtain] different levels of player dependent on the playing level of the club. Finances would mirror that.

We operate on sound business principles whereby the owner will invest more on the basis that the investment pays for itself. In SL, the salary costs and player ability would rise, as would the income, via crowds, TV money and competition disbursements. The club hasn't always done so but nowadays operates in a cloth cutting and businesslike manner.

Still not sure how you fit that in under the current cap.Your saying possibly 10-15 fringe players to cover injuries or rotate.That will get you to the 8's again but then what?

That statement was pretty general, and covers different possibilities, and definitely not just about next season but for any possible future years in SL where a different cap applies. There are already clubs wanting to raise the cap in the Champ anyway.

For next year, from what we're led to believe, it's the club's intention to wind down from the around 36 players we had last season, [when around five of those didn't even get a game] to something like 30. This isn't just about cap but finances in general - remember, unless things have changed, it's only the top 25 who count under the cap anyway, so ten our last years' squad wouldn't have counted, though they would have to be paid, of course so it impacts on club's bottom line.

As for the eights, with clubs on different levels of cap it's many miles from a fair competition, which is exactly what the RFL always wanted imo.

The RFL must surely be sweating a bit now on the Bulls situation though. I mean, it worked out kinda OK for one season in the Championship - we spiced that up, it restored a feelgood factor and we made the MPG and thus the Super 8 format, an arguable success. But the RFL now know what's wrong with the Super 8s format, and that in reality it is not a genuine chance of promotion barring accidents. And they will be watching very warily what happens at Bradford as they can't afford to have a properly run Bulls out of SL for long, because there is no long-term or even medium-term future for the Bulls as we know them in the Championship.

I think you're over emphasising our importance to the game. Yes, it would probably be better for SL if we'd replaced Wakefield. It certainly wouldn't have harmed the average crowd numbers. But I really believe that the RFL already KNOWS that the current format is not genuine promotion and relegation as the format is designed to ensure the status quo, while giving the illusion of P&R

It wouldn't matter if we were posting 20k crowds, we have no God-given right to be in Super League. We may consider ourselves a loss to the competition but I'm not sure there are many who really miss us from the top flight. New rivalries emerge or are renewed such as Leeds v Castleford now being the big derby game for those two clubs. Ten years since we won owt, memories fade and the competition moves on.

I think this 'illusion of P & R' argument only holds water if we'd demonstrated that with 3x the salary spend of most other clubs and a bedrock of SL and NRL experience, we were the exceptional team in the Championship. Had we done so and then put up gallant efforts in defeat to SL clubs and narrowly failed in MPG then I think you could make this claim.

In fact we didn't. We were lamentably inconsistent, interspersing 8 or 9 good efforts with performances which ranged between uninspiring and pathetic. And yet, remarkably we came within a score and 5 minutes of getting promoted. Leigh, Bradford and Sheffield all beat SL teams during the season. If anything the evidence suggests not only was promotion possible but that we were pushing on an open door and still failed. Neither position instils an ounce of optimism for 2016.

I agree with others who say Wakefield cannot possibly be as bad again but then that depends on their finances and just what hole Smith made in next year's budget to keep 17 on the field and what season tickets they sell.

Whilst I'm fully on board with the "Illusion of P&R" argument, I do agree that what happens at the end of next year may depend, to some extent, on what budget Wakefield will be running with. As you say it may be blown by the cost their 'new team' they brought in at the back end of the last season and they remain well below the normal standard associated with top level clubs, and the obvious target of any club attempting to go into SL. They do retain the advantage of playing at a higher level for the full season though, and this is a big advantage which shouldn't be underestimated.

There's a higher central funding budget for SL clubs this year. I think for the first time ever the salary cap going out (up to £1.8m) and the sky money coming in (£1.8m) match. So central funding can now completely cover maximum playing staff budget. Tickets, merchandise, sponsorship just needs to cover everything else.

Hardly. You are joking, right? The Bulls were, and remain, the ONLY club capable of generating the tidal wave that was Bullmania. There is no replacement club who could even dream of attracting 20,000+ crowds for fixtures against Leeds, or averaging 15k home crowds. So far as potential, for crowds, marketing, etc goes, we are unique, and of the Championship clubs, there is none who are within coo-ee. Can you imagine, for example, if Sheffield had been promoted?

How can our potential be over-emphasized? Especially in a league that really has no more than a couple of other clubs of real substance (as we once were) and NONE who can aspire to anything approaching.

And that is before you take into account that we rent our ground from the RFL. If we go down the pan completely,then it will cost them (and ironically all the clubs that stole from us) plenty.

When was the last time we pulled in those sorts of figures?

The Bulls have been in terminal decline for the best part of 10 years. The fact that we've managed to bottom out is no indication that we'll get back the previous level of success any time soon. The positives are that we have the core of a young team who could do great things over the next 5/6 years as well as a chairman/owner who's at least got business sense to get the off-field stuff into better shape and at least try to be honest with the fans.

The negatives, the team is still missing an actually on field leader to take up the captaincy and direct the team forward and is being coached by a man who, when the chips are down, throws a tantrum.

Yes, there's potential there for the club to grow back to where it was. But you could say that about half a dozen other clubs. Bradford is not as important as you'd like to wish

But as a club that has bottomed out we are drawing more in the Championship than Wakefield and Salford are in SL. I would also think we are now more financially stable than both of those. Having said that, however lopsided the field, P&R was decided on the actual pitch which is as it should be.

2011 (19k+) and 2012 (20k+).

2012 was a particular type of "let's get everyone out and try save the club" occasion. 2011 wasn't.

When Huddersfield finished top in 2013 the only equivalent home fixture where we didn't pull more speccies than them was Wigan. Heads were well and truly down by then and it was one of our worst seasons in terms of the narrative of the club, and few at that time thought we could sink lower. We out drew them in many fixtures last year, and have had larger crowds then them on a couple of occasions this year.

Weren't those also the years of £60 season tickets? Those of us who were on the terraces fully remember the announcements of 10k + crowds when if you actually counted bodies in the stadium, it would have been a lot less. Which is why that cheap season ticket idea failed, the club clearly thought that all those people would turn up every week and spend the money they saved on cheap tickets on things like shirts, food and drink. But as the actual crowds remained at low levels, that extra income never materialised.

It is stupid to say we have been in terminal decline, given the worst we have been is runners up in Championship with the best crowds in the division. There are a lot of teams who would like to be equally terminally declined. Our undisputed decline has, if anything only served to underline the potential, given the crowds - paying full SL whack with no discounts - that we have been able to maintain in 2015.


Which clubs? Name them! No club, ever, has been where we were in SL so good luck with that.


What are you on about? I am not "wishing" in any shape or form. It's nothing to do with what I wish". I am making observations as I see it, and they seem pretty much factual to me. Given the money a successful Bulls is worth to the game, I'd say that our health is probably THE most important issue for the RFL today. The halcyon days of 20K crowds and Bullmania in front of the adoring Sky cameras are something I suspect the RFL would like back. But, I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe Wakefield will suit them just as well.