The point i was making was Switzerland and France are taking these actions because they believe Islamification is taking place in their countries (increased use of the Burka ect leading to a seperation rather than an integration of cultures)

I do agree that the invasion of Iraq of which i opposed has lead to increased radicalisation of muslims in the west.

What do you mean? it would be innappropriate therefore challenged.

What do you mean by Islamification? The banning of the minarets in Switzerland smacks of cheap political propoganda by right wing parties. I am no expert on Swiss planning laws but would expect any new minarets would be subject to planning approval of some sort, & if inappropriate in its setting would not be allowed. The law in this instance I believe is an example of nasty Islamaphobia as it is unnecessary.

You know what i mean i've stated in earlier threads.

Sorry i meant posts before you correct me.

Well, maybe it would, and maybe it wouldn't. Let's say that it actually was a fair concise summary of my opinion of your mother's morals, and not a purely random gratuitous insult.

But anyway, you have just made my point for me. Because you don't disagree that you would take it personally, you just try to differentiate to explain why. The reason is, you TAKE it as a personal insult, and because of what is purely your interpretation, you do not "respect my opinion". It isn't, necessarily, "totally different". You have chosen to make it "totally different", even though it was my honest, if rather blunt, assessment.

[sizePS I don't believe I have ever met your mother[/size

My experiences of Switzerland, apart from keeing my Nazi gold there, are limited to looking down on it from ski slopes & catching the plane from Zurich. But I don't remember hordes of Moors invading across the Alps or over the Limmat.

Just because they believe it doesn't make it true! It seems to me that the Swiss banning Minarets is exactly the kind of activity that would be used to try and prove how awful Islam is if it was the banning of Church steeples in a Middle-Eastern country

I have mixed views on the French ban on the burka. Ostensibly it's nothing to do with Islamification. They have a law prohibiting the use of religion in public spaces - schools, workplaces, government buildings and the like. They claim that the burka is a religious symbol and therefore banned in the same way rosary beads would be. I guess if there is a universal ban on religious imagry then it can't be claimed to be discriminatory but I'd still argue it was intolerant. As a rule I don't like banning things - I'm more of a fan of the Franglais [i"vive le difference"[/i

As for integration - is it always essential? I reckon the political and religious views and the activities of many of the natives of my home city, Salford, would be enormously different from those of your average, say, Buckinghamshire village but I don't recall anyone claiming this was a massive problem. Not sure how integrated folks of Manchester and Liverpool are but we seem to cope

By the way this is an excellent debate. Not at all what I expected of Bradford fans (I have always been in favour of banning black and yellow curly wigs at rugby games to try and prevent the Bullsification of the greatest game!!)

Sometimes certain people don't like being dissagreed with, its either there way or the highway and they sometimes twist whatever you are saying as a means of shutting you up..And sometimes it does'nt work..

Thanks andy c.

So you have no opinion? I think that is very sad. How can you not?

Yes I do have an opinion but I prefer to express mine on more appropriate forums.