Fwiw, Saints seem to be pretty much replicating last week's demolition job in France.

Does that make our complete capitulation okay then?

Yeah, but the Dragons were down to 12 men for most of the match so it would have been a pretty naff showing from us if we hadn't beaten them properly. And we managed to let them have a try at the death even so.

Did we completely capitulate?

I saw a load of - at times - headless chickens playing as error-prone individuals, and with heads down. And I saw a clinical destruction by a team who IMO played far better than it is politically-correct to give them credit for.

But I saw no lack of effort and no capitulation. Is that really what you saw?

Have you so soon forsaken all hope?

Not sure I totally agree here Adey. I think there probably was a lack of effort in some areas against Saints. For instance I thought we were very lazy chasing kicks against St Helens. That isn't down to lack of understanding we just didn't work hard enough in some key areas. We certainly upped our workrate against Cas and gained valuable metres by refusing to surrender on contact with the defenders. We had 6 or 7 men chasing kicks which meant Cas found it tough getting any sort of momentum. We worked harder controlling the ruck and got numbers into the tackle although I still feel we could improve our technique here.

There were certainly times when some players seemed to lose heart for sure...I guess my point was that it was by no means universal. I'd not disagree at all with "lack of effort in some areas" - not getting the markers set and allowing them so many cheap yards from the PTB was the one that again wound me up the most - but that is far from a "complete capitulation", is it not?

It just worries me that some of the usually more realistic and level-headed contributors on here appear to be losing hope when surely it is too early for that?

Indeed, I think we got the performance on Friday that we were all hoping for on Sun. It wasn't a perfect or completely polished but you could sense a real desire and togetherness of the players. They worked for each other and came out fired up. I suppose next week will be a fair test, can we match those intensity levels against a supposed wooden spoon contender.

I found it a little worrying that so many supporters apparently lost faith in the team after only two games into the season. I suppose the players have hardly kept their side of the bargain though in recent times. Some of our worse performances have been saved for Odsal! I think we genuinely have enough quality in the side to see some good quality RL at Odsal this year, I just hope people will come back and give the lads a chance.
I

When players look like they can't be d to tackle, or chase then it looks like a capitulation to me. I have not forsaken all hope, of course not. I will be there week in, week out. But as I said on another thread, until we have competed with and beaten a "top" side, I am not getting carried away.

It all provides context. Today both Hull teams have been humbled. Justin Morgan is widely regarded as a talented coach but his side copped it pretty much exactly the same as we did last week. Doesn't make it right but it does make it less outlandish.