FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Francis Cummings
51 posts in 4 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
RankPostsTeam
International Star156
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 201212 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2017Jan 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



So now its Cummings turn to try and sue us Bradford Bulls Is it just me or is rugby leagues turning into a cheap made poorly directed soap opera !!

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach1390No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2017Jan 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

Done. 25/01/17.:



Simply a case of should he have been paid the remainder of his contract or not? Either there's a termination clause or there isn't. Why is it people are incapable of leafing through the paperwork without lawyers having to get involved? Two parties sign a contract and it's there in black or white or it isn't. It would take about two minutes to look.

RankPostsTeam
International Star187No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 201212 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Mar 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
fonds noir/Wheezy.gif
[i:13dzansg]Be careful what you wish for, one day you may get it![/i:13dzansg]:fonds noir/Wheezy.gif



Another sad legacy of the Khan / Sutcliffe venture! Lets hope its sorted soon.

RankPostsTeam
International Star3213
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201212 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2023Aug 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
68505_1605979550.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68505.jpg



I feel sorry for the guy, but the bottom line is he failed in his role. That's why he was sacked.
The fans gave him a no confidence vote which can be seen in the dwindling crowds.
The team gave him a no confidence vote in the way they played under him compared to how they now play under Lowes.
What else could the BOD do but say they've no confidence in his abilities and terminate his contract.

However, I'd not be surprised if there's no termination clause in Cummins contract. That's the kind of slapdash business we've all come to expect from the fallout from the Khan days

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach5880No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
13517.jpg
:13517.jpg



Quote: bullsonfire "Simply a case of should he have been paid the remainder of his contract or not? Either there's a termination clause or there isn't. Why is it people are incapable of leafing through the paperwork without lawyers having to get involved? Two parties sign a contract and it's there in black or white or it isn't. It would take about two minutes to look.'"


My thoughts exactly. Not sure why there is even a dispute here. If there is an early release clause then fine, but if not he is paid out for the remainder of the contract. It will be written in black and white.

mat
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9553
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Nothus "My thoughts exactly. Not sure why there is even a dispute here. If there is an early release clause then fine, but if not he is paid out for the remainder of the contract. It will be written in black and white.'"

Think it depends who wrote the contract. If OK and RW were involved suspect there are grey areas. Impression I get is green would have been fair re: compensation but won't be taken to cleaners either.

RankPostsTeam
International Star1011No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 201312 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2022Apr 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



If players contracts become null and void does that also apply to coaching staff. If so, wouldn't they only need to pay till November.

I can't imagine any contract being set up by Mr Green without him knowing every letter and full stop in it.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach11580
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Sep 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: roofaldo2 "I feel sorry for the guy, but the bottom line is he failed in his role. That's why he was sacked.
The fans gave him a no confidence vote which can be seen in the dwindling crowds.
The team gave him a no confidence vote in the way they played under him compared to how they now play under Lowes.
What else could the BOD do but say they've no confidence in his abilities and terminate his contract. '"


Give him a final written warning or pay him up, isn't that what you would have wanted for yourself.

RankPostsTeam
International Star3213
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201212 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2023Aug 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
68505_1605979550.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68505.jpg



Quote: chissitt "Give him a final written warning or pay him up, isn't that what you would have wanted for yourself.'"


Who's to say he'd not already had such a warning? It's something that's not in the public forum, as these things never are.

Sport is a results driven business. Don't get results and you're going out of business.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2024Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
973_1515165968.gif
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif



I really don't understand this at all.

Like most if not all managers he'd be on a fixed term contract, and it doesn't matter whether you then have him working for you or not, that's up to you, the deal is
a) I will work for you for 3 years and
b) you will pay me for 3 years.

Under this sort of contract, as you can see, as long as I am ready and willing to work, then you have to pay me. If you want to get rid of me it is not relevant. You have to pay me. You pay me for 3 years. Or give me a 3 year payoff.

Deals can and often are struck, for a clean break, but ATEOTD if there is no deal then the employer simply has to pay up the contract.

The only hint in the report is thisThe Bulls declined to comment yesterday and Cramer added

Why I don't understand it is that in the case of a written contract, there is no scope for "belief" as to whether an early-termination clause is in the contract, or it isn't. Surely, it's the simplest question of fact: RTFC? Surely, it can't be that the contract was purely verbal?

All very sad, especially remembering how Franny worked for nothing for a long spell.

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach1390No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2017Jan 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

Done. 25/01/17.:



I would presume that under TUPE regulations the terms of a contract cannot be changed in a takeover unless specifically agreed by both parties? In which case if the clause was there under OK it remains there under Green?

RankPostsTeam
International Star1934No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2023Mar 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I really don't understand this at all.

Like most if not all managers he'd be on a fixed term contract, and it doesn't matter whether you then have him working for you or not, that's up to you, the deal is
a) I will work for you for 3 years and
b) you will pay me for 3 years.

Under this sort of contract, as you can see, as long as I am ready and willing to work, then you have to pay me. If you want to get rid of me it is not relevant. You have to pay me. You pay me for 3 years. Or give me a 3 year payoff.

Deals can and often are struck, for a clean break, but ATEOTD if there is no deal then the employer simply has to pay up the contract.

The only hint in the report is this

"Cummins had expected to be paid the remainder of the three-year contract he signed following his appointment in September 2012".

So a 'signed' contract exists. And,"Very specifically, the three-year deal was agreed with the previous incumbent board of Gerry Sutcliffe and Omar Khan.

"The fact the club's ownership has since changed hands is completely irrelevant – the contract still continues through." Well er I guess Marc Green don't think so.

A genuine pity for it to end like this. There is a real edge to Green that the club have been crying out for many years, but it won't always be pretty. COYB.

RankPostsTeam
Moderator10969
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2023Jun 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
1271.jpg
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. Mark Twain Build Bridges NOT Walls:1271.jpg

Moderator


It does seem a strange thing to be hazy about. I'd expect the [presumably] solicitors who drew up these contracts would take great care to NOT be ambiguous, or even, as in the case of players, some kind of standard contract with standard clauses about early dismissal. I mean, it's not as though a coach leaving mid-contract is anything new.

That said, players contracts contain stipulations about being available to play, but to the best of my knowledge, nothing about not being good enough, and if he turns up to training I assume the club must pay him. If they've signed a pup it's their mistake, not the player's.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2024Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
973_1515165968.gif
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif



I also read about "the contract he signed", it just doesn't make sense to then have a dispute as whether there was an early termination clause in it, or not. You'd merely have to look.

IF a contract is written, but then something additional is agreed verbally, then technically it counts, but how would you prove it?

The point in similar circumstances is an employer has no choice but to accept an existing contract warts and all, but that (if written) would be the extent of it for both parties. If some time later, the employer claims there's an additional verbal wart, then how would he know? And how would he prove it? Call the previous employers who alleged it as witnesses?

Would be interesting to know how those general observations fit the facts of this case, but I doubt we'll find out as I expect a deal surely must be done.

RankPostsTeam
Moderator10969
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2023Jun 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
1271.jpg
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. Mark Twain Build Bridges NOT Walls:1271.jpg

Moderator


As the old adage goes FA, "a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on".

51 posts in 4 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
51 posts in 4 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


2.63427734375:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
2025 Season tickets
AgbriggAmble
174
13m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2503
16m
Transfer Talk V5
christopher
423
21m
Planning for next season
leyther
167
33m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63003
50m
New Players
BigTime
102
Recent
Film game
Boss Hog
5135
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40508
Recent
Rhinos Ladies
The Biffs Ba
6
Recent
England vs Samoa
Stu M
129
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2503
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40508
3m
Squad 2025
Miserybusine
23
4m
Film game
Boss Hog
5135
6m
England Vs Samoa Test Series
Ex-Swarcliff
82
7m
Is Eamon OCarroll off Yes New Coach Thread
Rafa9
132
7m
Dons Squad 2025
Jemmo
8
13m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63003
14m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
16m
Rhinos Ladies
The Biffs Ba
6
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Itchy Arsena
5
TODAY
Rhinos Ladies
The Biffs Ba
6
TODAY
Squad contract dates
Spookisback
6
TODAY
Paladin Sports
Deadcowboys1
4
TODAY
Magic Weekend
Wollo-Wollo-
2
TODAY
War of the Roses
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Dual Reg
PopTart
2
TODAY
Vagana
Scarlet Pimp
10
TODAY
2025 Kit
Wigan Bull
6
TODAY
2025 merchandise
18th Man
12
TODAY
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
TODAY
Its all gone a bit quiet
BigTime
17
TODAY
England Beat Samoa To Take Test Series
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
McMeekan
Trojan Horse
13
TODAY
Englands Women Demolish The Welsh
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Lee Kershaw
Big lads mat
9
TODAY
2025 Shirt
The Whiffy K
11
TODAY
Home Shirt 2025
MattyB
1
TODAY
Uele contract extension
Khlav Kalash
5
TODAY
Squad for Match 2 v Samoa
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 2
Boss Hog
11
TODAY
Sky tv deals
karetaker
7
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 1
Fantastic Mr
29
TODAY
New Kit
karetaker
62
TODAY
Memorable Games
Rugby Raider
6
TODAY
Hybrid rugby
moto748
11
TODAY
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
115
TODAY
England v Australia
karetaker
32
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
566
England's Women Demolish The W..
522
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
821
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
629
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
915
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1408
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1641
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
1912
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1492
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1759
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2128
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1693
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1779
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
1908
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2091
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.64M +11,444 80,15414,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
There are currently no matches to display.
Matches on TV
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024 3 England M34-16Samoa M
WINT2024 2 ENGLAND W82-0WALES W
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
2025 Season tickets
AgbriggAmble
174
13m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2503
16m
Transfer Talk V5
christopher
423
21m
Planning for next season
leyther
167
33m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63003
50m
New Players
BigTime
102
Recent
Film game
Boss Hog
5135
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40508
Recent
Rhinos Ladies
The Biffs Ba
6
Recent
England vs Samoa
Stu M
129
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2503
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40508
3m
Squad 2025
Miserybusine
23
4m
Film game
Boss Hog
5135
6m
England Vs Samoa Test Series
Ex-Swarcliff
82
7m
Is Eamon OCarroll off Yes New Coach Thread
Rafa9
132
7m
Dons Squad 2025
Jemmo
8
13m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63003
14m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
16m
Rhinos Ladies
The Biffs Ba
6
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Itchy Arsena
5
TODAY
Rhinos Ladies
The Biffs Ba
6
TODAY
Squad contract dates
Spookisback
6
TODAY
Paladin Sports
Deadcowboys1
4
TODAY
Magic Weekend
Wollo-Wollo-
2
TODAY
War of the Roses
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Dual Reg
PopTart
2
TODAY
Vagana
Scarlet Pimp
10
TODAY
2025 Kit
Wigan Bull
6
TODAY
2025 merchandise
18th Man
12
TODAY
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
TODAY
Its all gone a bit quiet
BigTime
17
TODAY
England Beat Samoa To Take Test Series
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
McMeekan
Trojan Horse
13
TODAY
Englands Women Demolish The Welsh
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Lee Kershaw
Big lads mat
9
TODAY
2025 Shirt
The Whiffy K
11
TODAY
Home Shirt 2025
MattyB
1
TODAY
Uele contract extension
Khlav Kalash
5
TODAY
Squad for Match 2 v Samoa
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 2
Boss Hog
11
TODAY
Sky tv deals
karetaker
7
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 1
Fantastic Mr
29
TODAY
New Kit
karetaker
62
TODAY
Memorable Games
Rugby Raider
6
TODAY
Hybrid rugby
moto748
11
TODAY
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
115
TODAY
England v Australia
karetaker
32
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
566
England's Women Demolish The W..
522
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
821
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
629
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
915
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1408
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1641
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
1912
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1492
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1759
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2128
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1693
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1779
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
1908
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2091


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!