They work for and in a business.

The business will thrive, they will earn a living and become better and more desirable by other businesses if they are good in their work.

The Bulls were a business. The players appear to want to try and end it this year in Superleague without a fight.

If this team were a restaurant, it would be closed down. I have been eating at this restaurant for many years, through good and bad. I have been served banal plain food for almost 9 years with the odd unexpected sweet dish. However, for this season, my meals are becoming more indigestible by the week, and you know, when you like something so much that you keep going for the same thing, only for you to get sick of it eventually. That's how I am now and I'm not alone.

I wouldn't mind if the waiters tried their best, but only the odd few care. The majority of them are waiting for the place to fold so they can move to Luigi's down the road. However, Luigi has the odd meal in their restaurant to check on the competition, but he knows he has nothing to fear. Except for one or two, most won't end up serving good food again and will end up stacking shelves.

Sorry about the restaurant analogy, but I hope you (and the players get the point).

I love rugby league. I have been a season ticket holder for many years, I went to Auz in 2008 for the World Cup, I went to several games in last years World Cup, I subscribe to Premier Sport so I can watch the best of the best RL.

The current owner seems to have business acumen (can you have that and be in RL for a profit), but he needs to give some forward guidance to his customers. He may or may not have shared his plans with the players, but it's the punters who help pay the majority of the bills and he's losing them by the hundreds every week and we haven't a clue about the future, other than blindly hoping that things will turn around every match, and they're obviously not.

Marc Green, you bought a business, it's withering every week - you need to do something that the fans can see.

The players - show what you can do. As well as putting yourself in the shop window regarding your abilities, you may just keep us in Superleage (at least put up a fight, we'll respect you more!).

Right, after lasts nights bilge, I'm going to get my stomach pumped (I'm sick of getting my stomach pumped every week of late by the way).

The problem is that what we are now seeing is the result of years of neglect and mismanagement at the club, which has now all come to a head. I am unsure why Mr Green is getting any stick at this time because he has one hell of a mess to sort out.

However, we have been warned. Sadly there are too many moralisers in our support who have been made fools of by swallowing years of lies and bull from the club and trying to censor anyone who spoke out about. These "self appointed spokespeople" have to take an element of culpability for turning up to fans forums and letting them away with it. (and clapping the very people who willingly destroyed their club)

And, yes, this IS a case of "I told you so." I did. But sadly there were a few empty vessels who made more noise and rallied their Disciples to the Church of Hood and Khan and let them away with it.

There is very little, if any sympathy for Bradford Bulls. We are just one part of the RL game and we should not get any preferential treatment. Especially when we have had more than our fair share of second chances.

I just find it strange that many who seemed incapable of criticising the club for their shameful dealings now seem very verbal in criticising the RFL.

More hypocrisy.

Some of our supporters are culpable for the mess we find ourselves in? Are these the same supporters who contributed to raising 500k? Who contributed to the hardship fund? Who contributed to administering the hardship fund? Who give up their own free time to help raise funds for our academy/club?

Perhaps you could let us all know what you have done to help improve things at the club aside from sniping from behind your computer screen?

Yes, they are. I remember the meltdown on here after a few stirring words from Paul Medley had you all cracking one out over how everything was gonna to be alright. The Bradford Bulls siege mentality.

That went well.

People were quite happy to listen to the lies and soak it all up. It was the most obvious pile of poop ever and yet they were believed and applauded for it! Don't you feel a wee bit embarrassed that so much of your efforts basically went nowhere other than to line to pockets of a crook?

If these people were brought to task long ago then this may have been avoided. Instead we had to listen to the moralisings of supposedly intelligent people on here who could not see the wood for the trees.

Culminating in the embarrassment of singing Happy Birthday to Mr Khan.

Such people have been allowed to continue to destroy the club because people just allowed them to keep on fooling them. It was OBVIOUS what was going on. If I could see it from here then how could more of you not?

It ain't sniping BB, it is stating the bloody obvious. I was roundly slaughtered on here for years for pointing this out and I sure as hell am not going to miss the chance to point out that PLENTY have gotten it badly wrong by burying their heads in the sand.

Had we not had some of the most gullible fans on the planet then this mess would perhaps have not been as bad as it is.

Disappointing, ME, that you take even this opportunity to have a dig at people. It's not about you this, believe it or not, it's about the club and where they go from here.

So in answer to my question... you've done nothing. What did you do to 'take these people to task'?

Sorry to disappoint you ME, but whether fans believed him or not, we'd still be in this mess. The same fans wanted McNamara out two years before he got the boot. But we couldn't do anything as we DON'T OWN THE CLUB!

If you were so sure this was going on what did you do??

We should totally have yet another round of people trying and failing badly to settle low scores. Sets us up nicely for next time.

OP - To run with your analogy, I work for a business, and if it were failing, I'd ensure that my CV was polished up as best as can be then go and enjoy working for a less dysfunctional organisation.

We're screwed for this season, and everyone knows it, including the players. Fighting on in the face of inevitable failure is hard enough for the highly skilled and mentally robust. Given our squad is makeshift at best I'm unsurprised that failure has become a habit. It's not okay (I left Salford at half time because I just couldn't face watching more of that dross) but I don't see any mechanism by which what is happening this season can stop happening.

ME - There's no through line or consistency to what you were saying, other than stating the obvious when bad things happen. That's less a position, more a character trait. Wallowing in misery is a tried and tested approach, and fine when it doesn't affect others. But things are miserable enough as a Bradford fan without gratuitous public displays of negativity and point scoring. Yes, you've said some correct things, fine, you get some internet points. Now go and spend them on a good therapist...

Thank you ME for pointing out how brilliant you were at telling us all how you knew all along we were in the doodoo and how some others believed the then owners and now look silly.

Now stop telling us about the past. This is now. My thread was to point out to the players and to a lesser extent Mr Green, that unless they get their proverbial fingers out of their arrises, the Bulls will be playing in the lower leagues at least next year and possibly longer with a dwindling fan base and the players may not find employment as Superleague players, or indeed professionally employed full time in RL.

If the Bulls went down fighting, then the fans would stand by the club - I've no doubt of that, but we're dying a death of a thousand cuts, playing as we are and as FA has previously said, if the players can't be bothered why should I (and we should take 'I' as meaning all the Bulls fans).

Players, the ball is literally in your hands. You do the hard work on the field and you will work towards securing your reputation and jobs and we the fans might still have a club worth supporting. Mr Green May also keep a viable business.

ME is just a sad troll who is fixated on some delusion that he's some modern day Nostradamus. It is a bit of a shame that he (proudly) sees an opportunity in our current plight to re-post the same post he has been making since whenever, with just a few words moved about. The thing is, it is all bull. Nobody would ever or has learned anything useful about our club from ME nor, as he is based a hundred miles away and never comes near, could they. He's the archetypal keyboard warrior, all mouth and never anything constructive.

Paul medley was mentioned in particular. Medley put many years of his life into the club and has been one of our most illustrious servants, from player to the youth setup, and he so far s i am concerned, and even with the benefit of hindsight, meant every word he said to the meetings at which he spoke and which I attended. Singling him out as a liar and some sort of charlatan is pretty low.

Finally we have had such a complex chain of different people, differnet companies, different evets, new situations, etc. serially happening over several years, each of which has played and does play some part in getting to where we are now. If it makes ME happy to delude himself that he "called it" as he loves claiming then fine, yes, if we all agree you called whatever it was whenever you called it, and you are such a great person for having called it, the Oracle of Dundee, will you finally change the record? If we all agree that, if we had only listened to whatever it is you think you were telling everybody, then we could and would have "done something unspecified about it" and been champions every year, will you stick yourslef a virtual gold star on your prophet of doom sheet and close the book?

Here's a tip, think hard, take a few days off, and try to come up with your debut constructive suggestion for the club. Instead of having your thousandth go at the fans who actually perennially support the club, plus trying to perpetuate your own childish little personal scores. It's pathetic and so boring, you wouldn't believe.

Some questions :-

When Northern went bust (1964 ish) what were the average attendances?

I know the record low crowd was 324 against Barrow but interested in the average.

When Northern resurfaced with a new set up - what increases were apparent please?

If the Bulls move into CC where do you feel they will play home games?

Found these average attendance figures elsewhere on the site:

1945-1946 = 7475
1946-1947 = 10,428
1947-1948 = 14,751
1948-1949 = 14,560
1949-1950 = 14,765
1950-1951 = 16,725
1951-1952 = 17,820
1952-1953 = 16,862
1953-1954 = 13,124
1954-1955 = 9006
1955-1956 = 6911
1956-1957 = 5986
1957-1958 = 5126
1958-1959 = 3935
1959-1960 = 2962
1960-1961 = 1857
1961-1962 = 1495
1962-1963 = 1257
1963-1964 = 1020 *average attendance after 11 games
1964-1965 = 7332

As for home games, I personally would like to see Odsal die and for us to play somewhere small (15k capacity?) but modern, hopefully paid for out of some Odsal selling related jiggery pokery. I'm not going to pretend that I understand how the various freeholds and leaseholds would all fit together to leave a pot of money for that to be built, but I can't see another way that Bradford having a viable home is possible. I am emotionally attached to Odsal but it seems to be that shiny, slightly non-atmospheric stadia attached to retail parks or supermarkets are the future, and I'd like Bradford to exist in the future too.

Thanks very much Ridler

Having said what I have about moving to a pokey stadium attached to a retail park, this piece of high quality bespoke analysis may indicate something else is needed. Putting the time series next to each other in order to compare our current state with our 1960s flirtation with oblivion, we find historically, after hitting our low point, the next season we see our attendances increasing by a factor of ~7. I suggest we should borrow heavily and get building NOW in order to accomodate our enormous fanbase in the championship/SL2. 4.96875:5