FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > HMRC Tax Issue |
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| Is the reason why we need this money so quick because of the tax issue that has been rumoured to be circulating for some time. I understand we need the coin to run the club, but why do we actually need it, is it to pay the HMRC?
When the club get the 1m/500k, where is it going or what is it going to be spent on and how quickly will it be spent?
Does the buisness plan allows us to build up a steady profit, or are we slowly going to sink back into the red?
Do we have debts to the RFL?
The Bank?
HMRC?
Other creditors?
I just don't know.
I really want to pledge, but I'm just not sure if I can hand money over to the current regime, Im terrified that this might happen 6/12/18 months down the line.
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| I will give you guys £100 but not while Hood is there,he isnt going anywhere before good friday so thats me out.
I really cant understand all this,why would brilliant RL fans like at the Bulls give anywhere near half a million to a club thats been badly run ?
If they go you have a chance,if they stay trust them at your peril.
Sorry, im a bit of a bulls fan but stupid i am not mr Hood.
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| If Hood was to resign now, though, who would you replace him with?
Before next Friday?
Because that is the implication of what you just said.
And, if what we are told is correct, after next Friday its all academic anyway if the funds are not raised, so I guess that means you just voted for administration?
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| He could put out a statement giving his intention to go as soon as this is sorted one way or the other but as you/we hear nothing he obviously is going and wants to stay.
Therefore i cant support the Bulls and as ive lived/worked there since 84 thats sad.
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| The Chairman has lost the faith of a lot of fans. Speaking personally I'd struggle to believe much that he has to say right now. I suspect the pledge would be more successful if he walked.
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| Quote: PAC "I will give you guys £100 but not while Hood is there,he isnt going anywhere before good friday so thats me out.
I really cant understand all this,why would brilliant RL fans like at the Bulls give anywhere near half a million to a club thats been badly run ?
If they go you have a chance,if they stay trust them at your peril.
Sorry, im a bit of a bulls fan but stupid i am not mr Hood.'"
TBF mate I think many neutral fans such as myself would put their hands in their pockets to help such a prestigious club but not without any assurances that the money isn't going down the swannee with all the rest.....
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| Quote: Bully_Boxer "The Chairman has lost the faith of a lot of fans. Speaking personally I'd struggle to believe much that he has to say right now. I suspect the pledge would be more successful if he walked.'"
Very true,best of luck but with him in charge please dont be upset if lies come out again and again.
28 years in bradford me and the RL fans dont deserve this.
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| Quote: Bulls4Champs "Is the reason why we need this money so quick because of the tax issue
Do we have debts to the RFL?
The Bank?
HMRC?
Other creditors?
I just don't know.
I really want to pledge, but I'm just not sure if I can hand money over to the current regime, Im terrified that this might happen 6/12/18 months down the line.'"
As far as I understand it a big chunk of the money received from rfl for odsal lease was used to repay a loan rfl gave us at beginning of 2011. Only money we could maybe owe to rfl would be ground rent if it's due. The tax liability duckett keeps mentioning is the image rights payment that's going to hit all clubs at some point (wakey excepted as their liability went when they went into admin last year). That should be a one off thing and is presumably the big bill that has a definite date attached to it hence the deadline for pledge.
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| If it is HMRC and I'm sure Addey can confirm this, I believe Nic class 1 tax is due 19th April which could be why there trying to get everything in for mid April without having to pay a late penalty.
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| Quote: bull at work "If it is HMRC and I'm sure Addey can confirm this, I believe Nic class 1 tax is due 19th April which could be why there trying to get everything in for mid April without having to pay a late penalty.'"
I rather fear we are talking far more serious issues than that mate.
I think you might find we have considerable arrears unpaid from earlier months. In fact, if I had to guess, I suspect (given the timing) the biggest element is unpaid VAT, although there must be an image rights tax settlement lurking somewhere and that will not be small.
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| Quote: bull at work "If it is HMRC and I'm sure Addey can confirm this, I believe Nic class 1 tax is due 19th April which could be why there trying to get everything in for mid April without having to pay a late penalty.'"
Tax and NI deducted from wages are due on the 19th of the following month, so yes, you will have to make a payment by that date. However I would be absolutely astounded if Bradford's monthly PAYE payment is anywhere near 500k. Sheffield Wednesday's monthly bill was only around half of that a month when they were in the Championship, and that was on average attendances of nearly 20,000 and the tickets were a lot more expensive than at Bradford!!
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| Quote: Adeybull "I rather fear we are talking far more serious issues than that mate.
I think you might find we have considerable arrears unpaid from earlier months. In fact, if I had to guess, I suspect (given the timing) the biggest element is unpaid VAT, although there must be an image rights tax settlement lurking somewhere and that will not be small.'"
If there were unpaid amounts from previous months, HMRC would more than likely issue the club with a winding up order. Pretty sure that hasn't happened (yet anyway).
From what I can gather as an outsider, you had bank borrowings that were secured against the stadium, however you sold it (or the lease, or whatever it was) so now in the banks eyes you have large borrowings but nothing to sell to get the money back. Banks get quite twitchy in this position and it sounds like they've asked for a repayment.
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| From today's T&A;
"Bradford say an impending tax bill and a changed banking lending arrangement has left them with virtually no cash."
So, on the basis of throwing out scraps of information indirectly and via third parties, yes the taxman is one of the people after our hide. Whether anything at all can be read into the use of the word "impending" I have no clue. Adey?
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| Quote: bull at work "If it is HMRC and I'm sure Addey can confirm this, I believe Nic class 1 tax is due 19th April which could be why there trying to get everything in for mid April without having to pay a late penalty.'"
PAYE tax and NI is due to HMRC throughout the financial year dependant on the companies estimated yield so under the assumption they pay monthly only the month 6th March - 5th April would be due by 19th April unless they had delayed in paying over tax deducted from staff when it was due.
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| I said it on another thread.
Apparently HMRC will petition the High Court for winding up if significant tax liabilities are not paid in the next couple of weeks.
Without going into a lot of detail, HMRC do not resort to this until there are significant arrears.
I also pointed out that, as well as PAYE, you need to consider VAT and perhaps the image rights settlement (although Hood told us, in his disingenuous replies at the forum, that that amount had not been assessed yet!)
If I had to guess (and it is a guess) I would say that, inter alia, the club has yet to pay the December VAT bill, due end Jan. That will be huge, because it will presumably catch all the season ticket VAT AND I suspect the income from the RFL re the sale of the lease. This is a pure guess, since I have neither asked nor been told what VBAT quarters and PAYE months are unpaid.
I suggest folk quit throwing around the normal PAYE dates (and its 22nd monthly anyway if you pay electronically) since those will not be relevant to this. You don't stare oblivion in the face just because you are a few days late paying your PAYE.
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