FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Swinton points deduction?
29 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner626No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2017Oct 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



This statement from Swinton might help
www.swintonlionsrlfc.com/news/356
This statement from Swinton might help
www.swintonlionsrlfc.com/news/356


RankPostsTeam
International Star3546
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201312 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2019May 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
69500_1482141774.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69500.jpg



Quote: Nothus "I'm assuming Swinton's worries are behind them completely now because they announced two new signings last night....transfer deadline, what's that?'"


Actually they announced five new signings. Only one of which was a loan deal.

RankPostsTeam
International Star70No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201411 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2018Jul 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: martinwildbull "Yes, PAYE was my assumption so I am glad to have someone, with the appropriate technical knowledge and experience, that agrees. Looking at the dates of the first four, all within a day or two of the due date (22nd of the following month for the non-accountants here) it seems to me that they were to ensure that the arrears never got to two months, only one, hence that pattern. The two recent ones however have different timing.

I just do not see anything remotely worth £100K, the website should have cost not a lot and what licences intellectual property trade mark brand or other software could they have developed. Swinton Lions PS4 rugby league team management game would start to tick the boxes, though who would buy that (Bulls fans maybe!)

And yes, if someone, who clearly does not want to be identified, wants to guarantee payment then that is fine, that is what it looked like to me hence my reference to technically insolvent. But clearly someone prepared to put a bit in whilst the dream was still alive, but once reality and the amount spiralled, clearly they did not want to know/could not cover it, prompting the sale, appeal to fans (bless them) and yes, unidentified parties.

FA's contribution, thanks FA, is to point out that the RFL must have known all along about this, but cannot pin point what the definition of insolvency event is.

So in the Articles of Association, right down at the bottom, it says that an Insolvency Event includes (4.10.2.a.ii) "If any petition is presented... for the winding up of the company". This is entirely logical, as an unsatisfied Statutory Demand would almost certainly be required as evidence to support the petition, and an unsatisfied Stat Demand is in the Insolvencies Act as An Insolvency Event, not the Winding Up Petition.

So we are approaching my question again, which I will re-state a bit fuller based on the various contributions: on the face of it, Swinton should have been deducted 6 times 6 points


Does it all really matter? Just another RL club dying a slow painful death.... sound familiar??

How many times did us Bulls appear in the Gazette with WUP's in the last few years???? A few if I recall... does that mean we should have additional points taken off? As the 12 this time was for the second administration we had entered, even though it ended in a sort of liquidified mess that rumbles on and will into next year......

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2024Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
973_1515165968.gif
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif



The RFL's problem is that IIRC recently at one point there was a literal queue of winding up petitions against a number of clubs, so maybe ignoring everything is less messy than starting the next season with every fecker on minus 6?

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member117No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2017Aug 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

Jimmy Ledgard would have caught that.:



Quote: martinwildbull "Yes, PAYE was my assumption so I am glad to have someone, with the appropriate technical knowledge and experience, that agrees. Looking at the dates of the first four, all within a day or two of the due date (22nd of the following month for the non-accountants here) it seems to me that they were to ensure that the arrears never got to two months, only one, hence that pattern. The two recent ones however have different timing.

I just do not see anything remotely worth £100K, the website should have cost not a lot and what licences intellectual property trade mark brand or other software could they have developed. Swinton Lions PS4 rugby league team management game would start to tick the boxes, though who would buy that (Bulls fans maybe!)

And yes, if someone, who clearly does not want to be identified, wants to guarantee payment then that is fine, that is what it looked like to me hence my reference to technically insolvent. But clearly someone prepared to put a bit in whilst the dream was still alive, but once reality and the amount spiralled, clearly they did not want to know/could not cover it, prompting the sale, appeal to fans (bless them) and yes, unidentified parties.

FA's contribution, thanks FA, is to point out that the RFL must have known all along about this, but cannot pin point what the definition of insolvency event is.

So in the Articles of Association, right down at the bottom, it says that an Insolvency Event includes (4.10.2.a.ii) "If any petition is presented... for the winding up of the company". This is entirely logical, as an unsatisfied Statutory Demand would almost certainly be required as evidence to support the petition, and an unsatisfied Stat Demand is in the Insolvencies Act as An Insolvency Event, not the Winding Up Petition.

So we are approaching my question again, which I will re-state a bit fuller based on the various contributions: on the face of it, Swinton should have been deducted 6 times 6 points

FWIW my understanding is that a petition is only presented when the hearing takes place, before that it is lodged pending that hearing. As all of the petitions were withdrawn before any hearing did take place then said petitions were not presented. Hence no points deduction would be initiated.

I find this speculation, including my own, to be a sad reflection on our attitudes towards the sport and clubs that we love.

RankPostsTeam
International Star1795No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2021Jan 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
54218_1349939535.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_54218.jpg



Insolvency is the inability to pay a debt or debts. The Insolvency Act essentially defines this as the inability to satisfy a statutory demand, a reasonable step so that frivolous petitions are not presented. A winding up petition can only be presented if the company is unable to pay its debts, in other words the insolvency event has already happened. HMRC follow the rules. They will normally have presented a statutory demand before issuing the winding up petition. This is acknowledged in the RFL rules of association as it includes "if any demand under section 123 of the insolvency act 1986 is served..." So as mentioned in my previous post, service of a statutory demand is sufficient, the insolvency event having already happened. Unless HMRC have not been issuing stat demands before WU petitions.

As nobody had come up with, for example a hidden section in the RFL constitution that states the RFL can do what it pleases in defining insolvency event irrespective of the sections I have quoted, and as noted before this is usually explicitly stated rather than hidden, the next thing to do is to write to the RFL and ask for clarification.

29 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
29 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


3.251953125:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
5m
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
14m
Play-off semi-final
Wildthing
5
20m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Trebor1
10055
36m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2382
46m
Call for funds
Listenup94
103
57m
SL CHAT THREAD OTHER TEAMS GAMES
Shabino
145
60m
Shopping list for 2025
ComeOnYouUll
5295
Recent
George Williams
just_browny
27
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
DSJ1983
3255
Recent
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Hull KR Away Play Off Semi
Barbed Wire
3
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Call for funds
Listenup94
103
1m
2025 membership/renewals
Chris71
38
1m
Leigh it is
Cokey
31
1m
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
1m
Ground Improvements
vastman
85
1m
Dons Squad 2024
Jemmo
33
1m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Trebor1
10055
2m
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Play Off SF
Cokey
2
2m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2393
2m
SL CHAT THREAD OTHER TEAMS GAMES
Shabino
145
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
TODAY
Play-off semi-final
Wildthing
5
TODAY
Coach of the Year
Fantastic Mr
5
TODAY
Greatest game ever at HJ
Fantastic Mr
10
TODAY
World Club Challenge
Barstool Pre
1
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Hull KR Away Play Off Semi
Barbed Wire
3
TODAY
2025 Squad
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
2024 Season Review
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
McNamara interview
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
French Elite 1 season 2024/2025 Thread
Jimmythecuck
3
TODAY
5024
Butcher
7
TODAY
2025 membership/renewals
Chris71
38
TODAY
Hull FC ladies
Hessle Roade
1
TODAY
Kai
Cokey
8
TODAY
Travel to hull krdoes the club run coache
Fantastic Mr
48
TODAY
Wakefield v Dons - Sunday 29 September 2024
Wanderer
4
TODAY
The play-offs
Ckt2487
11
TODAY
This years play off series
matt_wire
3
TODAY
Leigh it is
Cokey
31
TODAY
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Play Off SF
Cokey
2
TODAY
Must do better
Wires71
29
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Break Saints Hearts With Golden Point Win
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Todays match v Saints
MorePlaymake
150
TODAY
We are in good hands
God
6
TODAY
Josh Charnley
Vancouver Le
2
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off Progress In Eliminating Salford
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
482
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
573
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
993
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1300
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1066
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1473
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1193
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1438
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1554
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
1828
Salford Close In On The Play O..
1530
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1618
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
1796
Wigan Warriors Defeat Hull KR ..
1625
Wane Names Provisional Squad f..
2061
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.63M 2,816 ↑2380,12914,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Fri 4th Oct
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R29
20:00
Hull KR
v
Warrington
 Sat 5th Oct
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R29
17:30
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sun 6th Oct
     National Rugby League 2024-R31
09:30
Melbourne
v
Penrith
       League One 2024-R26
15:00
Keighley
v
Hunslet
       Championship 2024-R29
15:00
Bradford
v
Featherstone
15:00
York
v
Widnes
     Womens Super League 2024-R16
16:30
York V
v
St.HelensW
 Sun 27th Oct
     Mens Internationals 2024-R2
14:30
England M
v
Samoa M
 Sat 2nd Nov
     Womens Internationals 2024-R2
12:00
ENGLAND W
v
WALES W
     Mens Internationals 2024-R3
14:30
England M
v
Samoa M
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Fri 4th Oct
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Warrington
Sat 5th Oct
SL
17:30
Wigan-Leigh
Sun 6th Oct
L1
15:00
Keighley-Hunslet
WSL2024
16:30
York V-St.HelensW
NRL
09:30
Melbourne-Penrith
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sun 29th Sep
L1 25 Rochdale26-46Hunslet
CH 28 Barrow24-26Widnes
CH 28 Bradford50-0Swinton
CH 28 Dewsbury28-8Sheffield
CH 28 Wakefield72-6Doncaster
CH 28 Whitehaven23-20Halifax
CH 28 York16-6Featherstone
Sat 28th Sep
CH 28 Toulouse64-16Batley
SL 28 Warrington23-22St.Helens
NRL 30 Penrith26-6Cronulla
Fri 27th Sep
SL 28 Salford6-14Leigh
NRL 30 Melbourne48-18Sydney
Sun 22nd Sep
CH 27 Batley28-14Swinton
CH 27 Halifax14-10Bradford
CH 27 Swinton20-22Doncaster
L1 24 Hunslet18-14Midlands
L1 24 Keighley26-22Rochdale
WSL2024 15 LeedsW10-12York V
WSL2024 15 St.HelensW18-4WiganW
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 27 721 336 385 44
Warrington 28 761 341 420 42
Hull KR 27 719 327 392 42
Leigh 28 580 404 176 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
Bradford 26 678 387 291 34
York 27 655 469 186 30
Widnes 26 551 475 76 29
Featherstone 26 622 500 122 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
5m
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
14m
Play-off semi-final
Wildthing
5
20m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Trebor1
10055
36m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2382
46m
Call for funds
Listenup94
103
57m
SL CHAT THREAD OTHER TEAMS GAMES
Shabino
145
60m
Shopping list for 2025
ComeOnYouUll
5295
Recent
George Williams
just_browny
27
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
DSJ1983
3255
Recent
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Hull KR Away Play Off Semi
Barbed Wire
3
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Call for funds
Listenup94
103
1m
2025 membership/renewals
Chris71
38
1m
Leigh it is
Cokey
31
1m
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
1m
Ground Improvements
vastman
85
1m
Dons Squad 2024
Jemmo
33
1m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Trebor1
10055
2m
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Play Off SF
Cokey
2
2m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2393
2m
SL CHAT THREAD OTHER TEAMS GAMES
Shabino
145
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
TODAY
Play-off semi-final
Wildthing
5
TODAY
Coach of the Year
Fantastic Mr
5
TODAY
Greatest game ever at HJ
Fantastic Mr
10
TODAY
World Club Challenge
Barstool Pre
1
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Hull KR Away Play Off Semi
Barbed Wire
3
TODAY
2025 Squad
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
2024 Season Review
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
McNamara interview
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
French Elite 1 season 2024/2025 Thread
Jimmythecuck
3
TODAY
5024
Butcher
7
TODAY
2025 membership/renewals
Chris71
38
TODAY
Hull FC ladies
Hessle Roade
1
TODAY
Kai
Cokey
8
TODAY
Travel to hull krdoes the club run coache
Fantastic Mr
48
TODAY
Wakefield v Dons - Sunday 29 September 2024
Wanderer
4
TODAY
The play-offs
Ckt2487
11
TODAY
This years play off series
matt_wire
3
TODAY
Leigh it is
Cokey
31
TODAY
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Play Off SF
Cokey
2
TODAY
Must do better
Wires71
29
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Break Saints Hearts With Golden Point Win
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Todays match v Saints
MorePlaymake
150
TODAY
We are in good hands
God
6
TODAY
Josh Charnley
Vancouver Le
2
TODAY
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off Progress In Eliminating Salford
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
482
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
573
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
993
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1300
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1066
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1473
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1193
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1438
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1554
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
1828
Salford Close In On The Play O..
1530
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1618
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
1796
Wigan Warriors Defeat Hull KR ..
1625
Wane Names Provisional Squad f..
2061


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!