Quite probably, and in all likelihood the results won't be seen til next year as the whole thing with pre-season is that you can run the guys into the ground in various situations over the week without the need to recover for matchday.

I'm genuinely part of the positive tendency (remember when the PT And NT on here used to be a thing?!!!) I never expected the season to end as anything other than us finishing bottom, and I do see the, potentially, bigger picture for rebuilding the club. But as a matchday fan first and foremost I still struggle not to get frustrated with our team being out-fitnessed by the likes of Rochdale, Dewsbury, etc.

The Widnes DR player was in the right centre slot. Most teams generally favour attacking down the left, but we really concentrated our attack down the left.

None of the above helps. But there was no lack of effort. The trouble is, six sets on the line of (due respect etc) ochdale, and the end of the game on a warm day, and unable to score or indeed really look like scoring, points to me to a lack of creative players, a lack of pre-planned attacking drills, alack of individual inspiration and a lack of size and power if crashing over is the thing.

Not sure why people are still talking about going down as if it was just a possibility, I remain of the view that we were as good as relegated some weeks ago, and I don't think a win against Rochdale would have made any difference. We may have a turnaround of fortunes between now and the season end but it seems to me pie in the sky to suppose we could string together the sort of run that would be needed, with the playing resources we have got.

It could have been different, but key injuries to key players like Oledzki (surely our best forward when fit), Chisholm (one of the class players of the division) and Pryce (retired) would make life tough for even established, cohesive, settled sides. It's frankly too much for us to cope with.

I'm kind just waiting for this season to be over and out of our misery. That way, if the lads do pull of what would surely be the best comeback since Lazarus, I can justify getting completely wsted, and if they don't, I can justify getting completely wasted.

I agree with most of that, and certainly the lack of creativity, attacking drills, inspiration etc. The attack has been so utterly predictable every time I've seen them in the last couple of months, it's quite depressing.

The only bit I don't agree with is the effort thing. There are some players on that side that are putting full effort in, no doubt. Peltier is an example of someone who clearly is trying, but his job is the barge side and he can't do the creative part. However there are other players who I don't think are putting the full effort in, and that's witnessed when they go into a tackle half a*sed and the player gets through them far too easily. I feel sorry for the likes of Peltier when I see that happen, when he's trying his best without necessarily having the same natural gifts some others have.

The sad thing is we don't seem to have a lot of players who have both the ability and the full effort. Most seem to have one or the other.

Effort is there but we seem to be scared to commit. Maybe it is lack of trust in skill after so much dropped ball and errors. As a young side maybe they hve been told to reduce risks. They appear to wait for the ball before running. I can't remeber a winger coming on a line inside his centre all season. We get pushed into touch. Campbell hasn't had a pass off his centre all season from memory. Confidence is shot. I reckon when relegation is confirmed we'll win every game. Pressure will be off.

I'd say minimal returns before the start of next season but the guy needs to be in place so he can get his plans sorted for the start of the off season