So with a better squad were going to do significantly worse ... Makes sense

Be careful with comments like that mate. Always destined to come back and haunt you when you use the phrase 100% haha.

I think you're going a bit over the top. To suggest we will 100% finish outside of the top 4 when we are odds on to finish there is a bit drastic.

Jack Owens will be a quality player. As will Theo. I'm made up with our recruitment. Some big money comming off contract next year Walsh, Wilkin and possibly Burns. So expect bigger name signings then.

Names with seven letters in them rather than 6? The days of Saints making big signings are well and truly over.

You are made up with signing players that couldn't get into the first 17s of teams of a far lower standard than our current side? Really? If Owens is such a quality player, why couldn't he get into Widnes' team? Surely he'd be a star for them?

You are one of those sycophantic fans who would be made up if the club annouced it was re-signing Danny Arnold and playing it's home games on a Thursday morning and charging £312 per game. That or you're 12.

Yes I'm made up. The only thing that stopped this club winning anything last year was the coach IMO. We have a fantastic squad.

Leeds recruitment for this year is nothing special. Wigan dropped on with the fact there homegrown star was homesick, if Graham wanted to come home he'd be at Saints. Wire and Catalans have threw the kitchen sink at players because they needed too. Huddersfield and Cas,s recruitment has not been better than ours. Not a chance.

So stop crying. It is what it is. I've seen Jack Owens play from the age of 14 he is extremely talented as is Theo. Lama Tasi will be a star this year aswell

I like the signing. Both Fages and Owens are good signings as they both have good potential. But I agree that Pereyoux looks a poor signing. I'm fairly happy with tasi as there wasn't really much alternative.

We can only judge these players on paper at the moment so to make wild statements that we won't finish in the top 4 100% is ridiculous. I don't think we are any worse than Wigan. Leeds are clearly still the standout team so let's not get too carried away.

I claim my £5 if you are Widnes Academy from the Widnes forum. Jack was good at 16 and 17 with potential. But since then has been average at Widnes with some dodgy displays. I feel a bit overweight and slow.

Better squad? Really? You think ?

Will any idea these signings be in the 17 ?

Imo we won't make the top 4. The likes of Warrington hull and catalan look to have recruited well so look stronger. Huddersfield have recruited well and Leeds and Wigan Wilde Make the top 4.

Bookies had us joint favourites to win the 2015 grand final and we did didn't. The Bookies didn't give us a cat in hell chance in 2014 and we won it. Bookies odds mean nothing

Don't we all, mate. But what's that got to do with Jack Owens?

Do we play this game again? Okay...

Tasi - Masoe : I'll take your laughter in the Tasi thread as you agree this is at least on par, if not an improvement...

Peyroux - Jones : a lot has been said about Peyroux and his lack of game time, but he has consistently been in international setups (I mean there's a whole argument to be had about him switching international teams but that's for another day), so the question is, do you think Jones would have gotten into any of those international set ups? If the answers no, we may well have ourselves an improvement

Fages - Hohaia : Hohaia has my total support, and it's a great shame he had to bow out in the way he did ... But his impact on the team last year in the time he did play was (understandably) lacking, so any contribution made by Fages next year is an improvement

SMD - Wellens : this is the hardest one for me, and if have no problem people telling me this is a loss to the squad. But the Hohaia argument is applicable here too...

Charnock - Walker : one youngster out, another in. The fact Walker couldn't hold down a permanent spot in the Wakefield team says it all (even though I hope in time hell fulfil some of his early promise). Charnock into the 25 and covers the spine and in particular Roby where we're very short.

Davies/ Knowles - Hand : see above, like for like, hopefully one of them can seize their opportunities

Owens - flanagan : quite different so hard to compare, but Flash was the definition of bland for me and a real bugbear of mine last year, and Owens pushes Dawson down the pecking order (regardless of whether your in the "he's average" or "he has potential" camp) so that's win win for me!

Then you get into the fact our halfbacks will actually have a preseason together, the kids will be looking to get over their sophomore slump etc...

How that isn't a net improvement to the squad is beyond me ...

Come on mate you can't seriously think Hull look stronger? This is a team who have lost 2 of their better players let's not forget.

I get people being underwhelmed with our signings but it's getting a bit over the top now to say Hull look stronger.

I think we're looking okay for next year. We've not signed any headline players - everyone knows that - but the recruitment strategy seems to be based on depth rather than getting a big name. I certainly don't think we're any weaker than we were last year, when we had two prominent squad members who were done after a few weeks.

Looking at our main competitors, I don't see anyone pulling out ahead. Wire have signed some big-ish names, but I'm still not convinced they've sorted out their problems at half back. I'll be amazed if Leeds are nearly as good with the leaders they've lost. Hudds seem pretty static. Hull and Catalans have made some impressive signings but a lot needs to change before either of them are serious title threats. Wigan will be strong if they can get Tomkins on the field.

All in all, I think we've got a squad that's better equipped for the grind of the season. Whether we've got the standout quality to bring home the bacon in the very big games, I'm not so sure.

That's a good summary, but I'd take it a step further as I'm dramatic like that. We need a star player, someone we can look to when it's going against us versus the big teams. Someone the opposition fears. We simply don't have that at the moment.