"were"? That makes it sound like its a thing of the past, should have read "are skint and homeless"

Cheating? Is that what you call going professional before the rest could?

Anyway, my point was simply that whatever your opinion is of/however you class what Wigan did in the era immediately before SL, it can hardly be dismissed as 'a little success'.

The full time pro stuff wasnt cheating it just means what was achieved against part timers doesnt compare to the old Part time v Part time or Superleague (all full times pro's). It means something to Goon fans obviously but pretty much nobody else cares.

Wigoon did a fair bit of cheating with uncle Mo in charge though, read Chris Joynt's book for a great example

Well said....

There's no way I'm defending Maurice as squeaky clean

I'm all for bias towards your team, but that's taking it too far!

You do realise that Leeds went full time before Wigan (didn't do them much good!) don't you?

No fuss was made about Wigan going full time back in the day, because most leading clubs were more or less full time anyway by then, including St Helens.

I remember Ian Lucas giving up the antiques business, that got the headlines, there was no mention of Wigan "cheating" by being "professionals" playing "amateurs".

I think this is something Wigan fans just like to say to try to add some value to what you 'achieved' . Wigoon had a full time pro squad of players on very very good money (as was proven when the salary cap came in and you had average players on world class salaries), add to that all the money you put on tick to develop facilities etc and Wigoon was a full time pro club on the Rugby side if somewhat amateur on the finances.

Speak to some of the players around clubs like Saints during this period and its pretty clear they were semi pro at best with the odd full time player

whats all this got to do with Matty Smith ?

For me, spending huge amounts of money that noone else has (and, as it turns out, you don't actually have either) to gain an unfair advantage in the competition for a decade might not be cheating [iper se[/i, but it's not particularly far off. And yes, add in all of Uncle Mo's little "trick plays" and "cheating" starts to become as good a word as any.

I'm sure if you're a pie then that 8 on the trot still keeps you warm at night, but ultimately it really wasn't a particularly great achievement in the greater scheme of things all things considered. The fact that Saints on a fraction of the resources kicked your asses in '92/'93 for example ranks way above it in the annals of RL attainment.

Its getting desparate for us if we are thinking of signing Phil Veivers again.

Getting back to Matty Smith.................. I'd rather have him than lance whoever - but thats not going to happen as we are stuck with Lance.

I'm guessing we will do a deal with the devil (wigoon) whereby smith goes to wigoon and gaskell stays with us or vice versa.

If Wigan pair Smith with Tomkins they'll probably be ok. Anyone else at six (barring some wonder signing) and they'll struggle to break even.

I'd be surprised if he's moved up into the halves personally, and with Finch almost certainly leaving that's a massive gap to fill.

Russell in at 1, and Sam and Smith at 6 and 7 would be my preferred choice.