It's very difficult to judge Shenton, he very rarely gets any quality ball, I should imagine at Castleford he got a much better service from the halves.
For the last 2 seasons our back line attack is too lateral and predictable which shows up our backs as average at best. Shenton is a quality player who has not been given enough quality ball to show the talent in him.

Did he used to bully you at school or something!!!

As for Shenton, he (hopefully) just needs games to shake the injury off - if his problems are mainly psychological then I think he's better off doing that in the first team than stuck back in the reserves which wouldn't do anyone any good. We've got very few alternatives to play instead of him, especially with other injuries, that could do the job as well as even a struggling Shenton so it's a bit of a non-issue really anyway.

He's been very disappointing in a Saints shirt so far, but he'll no doubt have taken time to settle in, has had a complete lack of service and then the injury so it's unfair to write him off just yet. We're stuck with him one way or another for the next 18 months so hopefully he'll start to show what he can do once the injury is finally sorted and he starts to see some ball from a coach who knows what to do with a backline.

I don't mind cutting Shenton some slack for what was a terrible injury. It has to be remembered that Cunningham took the best part of twelve months to get over something similar.

But I just don't buy this "lack of service" as a reason for showing, well, nothing much in his first season. Yes, centres such as Newlove, Iro, Lyon etc. did benefit a little more in terms of possession. But they could [ialso[/i chip in with impressive form when service was at a premium.

Gleeson is a very good example. When signed (as, well, an unknown - certainly not a GB/Eng fringe player) he was essentially the junior partner in the centres - a secondary attacking option. But even though the ball was almost always going the opposite direction he still managed to chisel out some pretty vital performances. To such an extent that his reputation at the end of his first season was considerably enhanced. In contrast we have Shenton who, so far, has struggled to achieve the best form he showed [iin a Castleford shirt[/i.

Yes, League is a team game. But this doesn't mean the annulment of individual responsibility. I'm sure there isn't a player at the club who wouldn't love to give Shenton as much possession as he'd like. But Shenton has to reciprocate with doing the [iabsolute best with what he's got[/i. Which so far hasn't amounted to a great deal.

Agreed, I don't buy that 'excuse' - as that's what it is in reality. Someone on redvee gave some statistics which proved that he was getting just as much ball as his opposite number.

His disappointing performances have probably been exaggerated after having Lyon and Gidley there in the recent past.

I think he's just symptomatic of the decline in standards. Ten years ago we wouldn't have looked at him.

I felt really sorry for him yesterday. Whenever the ball came to him he either dropped it, or had the body language of someone who had never seen a rugby ball before, nor an idea of what to do with said object.

I really hope he catches a break soon though, he was doing so well in the tail end of last season.

To me he looks like a kid who's yet to flesh out. Given the nature of his injury perhaps he missed a lot of pre-season strength conditioning. I suppose the last thing you want to do with a dodgy elbow is pile 240lbs on the bench press.

The trouble is I doubt he'll regain that muscle mass until the next pre-season.

Shenton has been a very poor buy; he has not got a step to speak of and he is certainly not robust enough to break a tackle. He also looks to be sadly lacking in pace, his tackling is weak and his handling skills of late leave much to be desired. All the excuses regarding lack of quality ball etc is a load of cobblers, a decent player will make his own openings, something Shenton is incapable of doing. It is time to get shut.

I hope our players are doing alot more than that! i can do that myself!

I agree completely - a decade ago he'd have whiled his career away at Cas unnoticed in mid-table anonymity. Now he's a GB and first choice Saints player and one of the top 3 or 4 centres in the country. Oh my, how standards in our game have plummeted.




Lies, damn lies and statistics etc. He may have run with the ball as many times as Meli did, but Shenton's runs were 90-95% from dummy half or 1st receiver whereas Meli generally received it down the line, in space and at pace. Shenton, whatever his strengths or weaknesses, is not the kind of player who's going to be able to cause defences problems up the middle from a standing start. In the 7 or so Saints games I watched last season I made a point of watching Shenton in every game and I reckon he received the ball out wide and at pace about 3 or 4 times tops in all those games put together. He's not a Newlove or a Lyon (nor even a Gleason) who can produce something out of nothing and needs the right service to shine. I hope he gets it under Brown next season so we can see one way or another what he's about, and I'll reserve judgement on him 'til then.

Personally I'm not impressed. Yes has had an injury, but so had Perry last year for nearly a full season, Sia the year before. Does Perry get the same latitude? Did Sia? As for Kerion he got more latitude but he had been performing for years before the injury. Shenton was getting better towards the GF, but we where not talking about a player who would create an opening on his own from footwork (like Wheeler can) or busting thorugh (like Talau could). He needed the space before him.

I'm more than happy to give more time, after all that is what a contract does, but for me he is underperforming and I would not give another contract if we got more of the same for the rest of this year. If he was suddenly to improve next year, for me that's to little too late and smacks of players who only play when contracts are being discussed.

Maybe he is wrong for us, maybe we are wrong for him, but at the moment I can recall more creative displays from standin's like Gilmore, Wheeler (even Jones from what people tell me) than Shenton. But I'm always glad to be proven to be jumping the gun.

Should he be dropped to the reserves? Yes, he offers less than Jones/Wheeler/Meli at centre at the moment.

If confidence and form was a reason for sitting Gaskell and Foster in the u20s, then the same should apply to Shenton. He is well off the mark at present, and I agree with FearTheVee that he'd be at best our 4th choice centre at present. Hell, I'd even consider Flannery there before him at the moment.

You're right. Statistics often don't tell the full story. Nevertheless they are an objective basis for rational debate. I mean, you seem totally convinced Shenton has been starved of possession whilst Gleeson was the beneficiary of good service. But other than your subjective analysis of this comparison I really don't see what verifiable evidence you're bringing to the table.