I guess we need to find some starting props, then.
Ben Harrison and Brent Kite, please.

Glad to see this, he's a good solid player and is pretty good in attack when he runs wide, as he did against Cas.

From an outsider looking in, i can't help but think that St Helens supporters are slightly falling victim to the fact that they have been extremely spoilt over the last 10-15 years. Probably the best team of the Super League era for consistency of performance and winning trophies/reaching finals. Having some of the best players to ever play the game in Long, Cunningham, Jamie Lyon etc. It's almost impossible to live up to those standards and it may just be the case that, put simply, it's time for other clubs to have some success. Maybe some criticism could be levelled at the people in charge of recruitment etc. but as with anything in life, nothing lasts forever.

Disagree if you think i'm wrong, it's just an opinion at the end of the day....

I genuinely don't think the majority of the squad is bad as such, but are being made to look worse due to the lack of half-backs and hookers. I'm not up to speed with the Gaskell situation but watching our best halfback play centre for Salford is probably the most frustrating thing to me at the moment. That's the only thing that we can lay at Brown's door so far, which is compounded when you consider we swapped him for Howarth who has brought nothing to the hooker position that almost any other squad player could do just as 'well'. How can we criticise the likes of Turner and Gardner for their performances when they are reliant on quick ball which doesn't exist when the ball has to go through a combination of Howarth, Wilkin, Wellens and Hohaia?

Defensively I think we are fine, think it is 3rd or 4th best in the league which is better than you would expect given the amount of different players we have used. We just desperately, desperately need a new set of halfbacks who can give the rest of the players the good ball they need to play to their strengths.

Bring in a decent coach to steady the ship and put the hard work in for several seasons in the end it will all come good a la Wigan

That was done at the start of the season.

It obviously wasn't

There is nothing 'OBVIOUS' about it. 'OBVIOUS' would be us getting smashed every week and being bottom. That isn't the case, so what you are saying has no merit.

We are two points off Warrington. Does that mean that Tony Smith is 'OBVIOUSLY' not a decent coach? I think not.

Either you're on a wind-up, or are incredibly stupid. I cannot fathom which one.

It's my belief that history is a wheel.

'Inconstancy is my very essence,' says the wheel.

Rise up on my spokes if you like but don't complain when you're cast back down into the depths. Good time pass away, but then so do the bad.

Mutability is our tragedy, but it's also our hope. The worst of time, like the best, are always passing away.

Stay off the smack, it's bad for you.

Quote: St pete " It's just some pinched waffle from a medieval philosopher en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anicius_Ma ... s_Boethius

Quote: St pete " It's just some pinched waffle from a medieval philosopher en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anicius_Ma ... s_Boethius

Of course I pinched the waffle from Boethius, thought it might make you look on the bright side. Ah well, never mind.

This isn't the worst Saints team I've seen by a long shot, but we will lose to London this weekend as our injury/suspension/out of favour situation is frankly ludicrous.

We're close to a pretty tidy 13 out - have I missed anyone?

Lomax
Meli
Wheeler

Gardner
Gaskell
Yates
Perry
Roby
Walker
Manu
Flanagan
Wilkin