Quite. I can't fault him for effort as he is giving 100%. But would not score him high on brains or application.

Incidentally our players are 1, 2 and 3 in the whole of Super League - for missed tackles!
1. Wilkin
2. Walsh
3. LMS

On the plus side, two of our props Amor & Walmsley are in the top 10 for both carries and metres made.

Agree with everything. Development of players seems to be the worst I've seen at saints.
Where things this bad under Royce?

We have 5 players in the 1st 20 for missed tackles.

Attack wise we don't have any players in the first 20 for Tackle Busts - Clean Breaks - Offloads. (Indicators to show our boredom play)

Wilkin also tops the charts for penalties conceded. And we only have one player in the top twenty try-scorers: second rower Joe Greenwood at 13th.

He still makes the 4th most tackles in SL quite a way ahead of Roby and the most for any 2nd row player. Unfortunately he is No 1 in missed tackles and No 1 in penalties given away.

It looks to me that you can't fault him for effort but has become a bit of a liability and a bit over the hill unfortunately. He is turning into another Wellens at the end of his career

He's a bit of a "Jack of all Trades' isn't he, and has been lumbered to take up responsibilities due to recruitment shortfall. He dropped body mass to play in the halves but wasn't a master in that position, he came back into the pack but he was a bit lightweight. To be captain was a great honour for him but he isn't a natural leader and loses focus to keep the team to the supposed game plan.
Knowles is probably a season away from a regular team spot at the expense of Wilkin but who is going to step up and be captain/leader, can't think of one single player good enough to take up the role.

37 tackles and 125 metres last night for Roby. It's such a shame our pack don't give him that platform more often.

Take our pack out of the last two full seasons and we would have finished nowhere. You certainly can't say it was our backs (or halves) that kept us afloat.

It's not been at its best this season (in part because of Walmsley's injury and trading Mose for a Salford nobody). But the true test will come at the end of the season.

Everything else is just p!ss and vinegar.

Watched Amor with great sadness on sunday. At Wakefield he was a season away from international selection even with us. I couldn't blame him when he moved to Saints as I thought that nailed it for him. He's not dreadfull but he's at best stood still.

Have to say though poor as your pack is, Walsh is stealing money, Farges isn't ready but your backs are appalling, this from Saints who in all my RL life have had great backs even when they themselves have not been a great team.

Saints have always been my team of choice to watch after Wakey but on Sunday I had to applaud a Hudds team that totally outclassed you.

Cunningham is a very poor Coach as far as I can see.

Amor's a very good player. Wouldn't quite make the England squad even when on form, but an excellent starting prop and good enough for a team wanting to win silverware.

However, he can't do it all by himself. With Walmsley off tilt, our two bench props in Tasi and Richards (while Sav and Thompson are injured) being plodders at best. He genrally still scores very well on stats, which I like to look at for props.

The back row is a muddle. Wilkin is rocks or diamonds, he comes up with some big runs, but then does some pretty woeful stuff, which includes crazy misjudgements in defence and nothing kicks on the 3rd.
Regard a high tackle count, that's bread and butter for a back row - you'll always find a back row capable of that. We've let go Flash, Ashurst, Dixon & Walker who could all have matched him on that. I'm pretty sure morgan Knowles could, too.

Whilst I have time for LMS, he doesn't know the hell he's doing, most of the time, meaning he is intermittently effective.

The mainthing for me is the TEAM fundamentals.
1. We don't get a roll on our sets on tackles 1 and 2, which is mostly the responsibility of the wingers. Swift's alright at it, but we generally lack size in the back 3.
2. We do not control the ruck speed in either attack or defence.
3. Our defensive line is slow.
4. Whilst we seem to favour a forwards based game, we don't play an offloading game, meaning we don't ever look dangerous.
5. Our controlling half floats in and out of the game.
6. Our backs moves are lateral and easy to predict - look how easily Hudds defended their line despite how much possession we had in their 20.
7. Dubious judgement when it comes to kicking early in the tackle.

Once those 7 points have taken effect, the game is an uphill struggle and then indiviuals start to struggle with basics, includoing falling off 1 on 1 tackles.

All valid points, which in coaching terms is an easy fix, what's annoying me most is this lazy attitude and approach to games that neither creates intensity or momentum. We never take the game to the opposition
for longer periods and seem to invite the other team to get on the front foot.

Another negative is time wasting which I assume is to get a bit of a rest to conserve energy levels, Walsh takes an age to complete a penalty to touch letting the opposition have a breather and setting the line, he also
gets no distance on his kicks equivalent to wasting 1 or 2 wasted drives.

Last season and this season we are mentally very weak, Wilkin is not a natural leader when the going gets tough and we seem to go into capitulation mode more this season, which for fans is not acceptable.

Get your point but don't agree about the International bit - he could IMHO be in contention and he should but his development has been stunted - if ever a player would benefit from a spell in the NRL it's Amor, he just needs the push. Won't happen though.

Yeah, but its probably Englands strongest position, along with hooker. Graham, Burgesses and Hill would all stand in his way.

He's not big enough to play international rugby. He gets dominated to much at club level.

He used to have good footwork at the line but that's gone.