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Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40218.jpg



Quote: Cragganmore Kid "IMO, he shouldn't have waited. He shouldn't have done it. He'd already clocked that Leeds senior players weren't impressed, they can deal with it internally if they feel the need to and Saints can deal with it the next time they play. '"

Whatever. We don't agree, so I'll leave it at that.

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Quote: craigizzard "Well, if it is that simple then no, he doesn't have a point. Not an important point, and not a point worth airing to the national media on the day after a superb Grand Final, on a weekend with no football, when the sports pages have acres of space to fill, and when it's highly possible you're about to be named in an international squad with the player you're namecalling.

For someone who's supposed to be one of our more intelligent players it was spectacularly poor judgement. Worse judgement than jumping up and down and being an annoyance on the pitch.'"


Wilkin's argument is that Bailey has been doing this kind of thing for years. He initially kept quiet. He then made the point in the media. Nothing changed (either Leeds have no problem with Bailey's antics or they do but they can't control him). So he's stressed the point more forcefully. Wilkin introduced the youngsters into his argument but I don't think there's any place for gloating over [iany age[/i. League players have always shared a strong camaraderie and players who attempt to rub noses in get a bad name.

I don't have any issue with Wilkin's appraisal of Bailey. Indeed, I'd say it's tame in comparison to my own (and most other fans outside of Leeds). The guy is a thug who was rightly jailed for barbaric violence. Since he's returned he's often been involved in ugly incidents.

Do Wilkin's actions harm England's chances? I don't think so. Wilkin's a good pro and will go about his business without issue. From what I've seen over the years players generally lock the real world away in a box when they enter the pitch and "issues" rarely come into it.

As stated, a player should feel no pressure to self-censor - provided he is prepared to stand or fall by what he says. We've killed off most of the characters on the pitch and it seems like we are determined to silence all criticism off it.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "If all that is true, Why is it wrong for Bailey to celebrate in any way he likes?'"


If he lobbed his johnson in the mouth of a Saints fan in celebration would you say "why is it wrong for Bailey to celebrate in any way he likes"?

No? So we've established that you DO think there are boundaries to acceptable behavior. Wilkin's point is that Rob Burrow, Danny Buderus and the captain Jamie Peacock DO NOT engage in this sort of behavior. Which suggests THEY (the ENTIRE RHINOS TEAM minus Bailey) don't think it is acceptable behavior.

I mean, if you want to defend gloating that's your business. But I can't say that I'm surprised.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Mugwump "If he lobbed his johnson in the mouth of a Saints fan in celebration would you say "why is it wrong for Bailey to celebrate in any way he likes"?'"
Is she fit?

Quote: Mugwump "No? So we've established that you DO think there are boundaries to acceptable behavior. Wilkin's point is that Rob Burrow, Danny Buderus and the captain Jamie Peacock DO NOT engage in this sort of behavior. Which suggests THEY (the ENTIRE RHINOS TEAM minus Bailey) don't think it is acceptable behavior.

I mean, if you want to defend gloating that's your business. But I can't say that I'm surprised.'"
Well yes I think that there are boundries to acceptable behaviour, but lets keep at least some perspective Bailey didnt sexually assault anyone did he. He celebrated.
And yes, I have no problem with gloating, its part of the bounty of victory, it has been throughout hisotry. In fact the only people who do have a problem with it are the losers.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: SaintsFan "What a childish response! You sound straight off the schoolyard with your language. 'Bitching about him' icon_lol.gif

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Quote: Mugwump "Wilkin's argument is that Bailey has been doing this kind of thing for years. He initially kept quiet. He then made the point in the media. Nothing changed (either Leeds have no problem with Bailey's antics or they do but they can't control him). So he's stressed the point more forcefully. Wilkin introduced the youngsters into his argument but I don't think there's any place for gloating over [iany age[/i. League players have always shared a strong camaraderie and players who attempt to rub noses in poop get a bad name.

I don't have any issue with Wilkin's appraisal of Bailey. Indeed, I'd say it's tame in comparison to my own (and most other fans outside of Leeds). The guy is a thug who was rightly jailed for barbaric violence. Since he's returned he's often been involved in ugly incidents.

Do Wilkin's actions harm England's chances? I don't think so. Wilkin's a good pro and will go about his business without issue. From what I've seen over the years players generally lock the real world away in a box when they enter the pitch and "issues" rarely come into it.

As stated, a player should feel no pressure to self-censor - provided he is prepared to stand or fall by what he says. We've killed off most of the characters on the pitch and it seems like we are determined to silence all criticism off it.'"



Reading back through the thread, not allowing Jon Wilkin a 24-hour hotline to The Sun would be an "anti-intellectual" prohibition on "expressive and thoughtful discussion".

It's not about self-censorship, it's about sense. Stirring up discord publicly is just unnecessary. I suppose if having the wit to address things, if they're so vital, through channels other than a red-top newspaper is self-censorship then I'm in favour of it. It does not reduce your "character".

And these characters on the pitch we've killed off? The likes of Roy Haggerty, Chris Arkwright, Paul Round (from my generation), and plenty even more "characterful" before then? If you're so fond of them, and their on-field faults, then I don't see how you can so easily call Bailey, a man from a very bad background who was jailed at 18 but has been a disciplined and successful professional sportsman since then, a thug.

I hope you're right about the lack of effect on the England camp, by the way. It's not so much on-the-pitch that I'm worried about, it's feelings in camp. But hopefully everyone can self-censor their feelings and rise above it.

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