FYI they don't have PTBs in union. But if it bothers you so much maybe you could start by writing a letter to your own club asking them not to slow the PTB down, not to turn the tackler, to only employ 2 men in each tackle, etc. I'm sure they'll accept that allowing more tries is good for the game and pleases people like "Ron" so it will all be worth it. Hey, be sure to tell them not to do it when they play us though, cos at Wigan we don't need any favours, you know what I mean Ron? You can tell them to continue throwing everything they've got at us, and we'll do our best to up our attack to match their defense. At Wigan we'd balk at the idea of expecting someone to lower their standards to make it easier for us, but there you go.

Hey we all know Wigan don't care about the good of the game, we know your history, don't worry about that!

Lowering the standard of English RL under the banner of "improvement"? Well, your doublespeak is improving if nothing else.

With all due respect Ron and Electricglidingwigoon, Jog on!

Saints struggled to break down the Wigan defense yet Gaskill played for 5 minutes!!

Scott Moore was the difference for me - his defensive for the Tomkins try was terrible add to that 2 knock ons when Saints were in good position plus the penalty.

I agree with that.

Sad One, Whenever you post you always talk sense .

I've banged on about this all year. Why have a player on the bench abd only use him fir the last ten mins?

Surely that is a disadvantage to us, yesterday most of our subs was rotated between lms, Graham and TP. Clough only come on for 15 mins and Gaskell the last 10. We are effectively playing most games with 15/16 men which must be a disavantsge.

I just find it strange and never seen this before.

Not least because we are almost guaranteed to lose a back to injury this season. We have needed that back on the bench so often. Had it been Eastmond, as would have been the case if he hadn't been injured, I'm sure we would have seen him on earlier.

Hopefully Pryce isn't injured again but rather Simmons was resting him for next week. The guy was playing in only his fourth game back after a year out and it showed.

We've got a good side, a top 3 side definitely and we'll run both Wigan and Warrington close when our forwards dominate like that and I imagine we will have a say in the Play Offs. Yesterday proved that we have the best forwards in the league when they put their mind to it and add in a match fit Clough and a fully fit Perry and we'll be fine next season. We may need a prop to cover the big loss of Graham, but we're not far off up front and I think we'll cope OK with what we've got if nothing changes. I don't think we need to panic too much, we don't need to make a mass amount of changes IMO and we should be proud of this team. It may not be our greatest Saints team, but there's definitely a good spirit there and they will more often than not give you everything.

The problem comes in the backs for me, especially at full back. Sam Tomkins was the big difference between the teams. The way he links into the line in attack, the way he uses his speed and evasion to return the ball and attack the line is sensational and his positioning and defence is massively under-rated. Compare that output to Wellens and it's a world apart. He returns the ball so slowly especially when he has to turn and whilst at times he can link in nicely with the backs (when it involves drawing one man and passing) he doesn't chime into the line at pace and he no longer seems to score in the big games himself like he once did. Full back is such a crucial position and you can't carry someone in that position purely because they've been a Saints legend. I love Wellens, he's been fantastic for us, but he can't keep playing there especially when we have players like Eastmond (fair enough he's leaving), Makinson, Hohaia, Lomax and Wheeler who can all play in the halves, at full back or both and all of them have pace and evasion skills. I actually think Makinson could make a really good full back for us. He has size, he's really quick, he has good footwork and caused Wigan problems with his returns yesterday. He's also a good one on one defender and seems OK under kicks too with his experience on the wing. On his returns he was far better than both Wellens and Foster, although at least Foster does return the ball at pace, he just doesn't break tackles. It'd be interesting to see how Makinson would do chiming into the line and creating plays as 3rd pivot. He's played Centre in the reserves before, so he no doubt has decent hands. Whether he'll be given that chance when Gardner returns (who has earned a new contract) remains to be seen.

I'm also not convinced Shenton has been anywhere near good enough both with the ball and in defence. He's been a big disappointment for me and it's no surprise we go down Meli's side because we know we'll get results down there like we did twice yesterday. The problem is we become predictable with that tactic and unbalanced and Wigan overloaded that side defensively because we went there all day long and knew they didn't have to concern themselves defensively on the other side as much. I bet Carmont barely made a tackle. Maybe he needs more decent ball and he definitely needs an attacking 2nd rower like Soliola inside him who attracts 2 or 3 defenders, because he seems to be a Centre that needs space to use his pace, rather than being an off the cuff creative player who can create for himself like some of our previous Centres. Maybe we've been spoilt down the years and I'm over reacting, but I definitely we feel we lack edge on our right hand side offensively and defensively.

The halves issue has been mentioned by a few but in Pryce, Lomax, Wheeler, Hohaia and Gaskell we have plenty of options and those are strong options to have especially when Wilkin has a good kicking game too. I'd definitely keep Pryce. He has been slagged off by a few for yesterday's performance, but it's his 3rd game game back and he's still not running at 100%. But he makes a big difference to our side. He attracts defenders, shows the ball and can break tackles. He'll get better as the season goes on and should he stay fit we have to keep him. Put Lomax or Hohaia alongside him and we have a good combination with the likes of Wheeler and Gaskell in reserve.

The only other issue for me is defensively I think we're still a bit naive and this may well be a coaching issue. We dominated the game in possession and territorily but when Wigan were on our line I was never really comfortable, especially when they attacked our right side defence. I suppose this comes back to Shenton and his inside men (half back and back rower) but all season sides have had alot of joy down that side and we don't seem to shift quickly enough to cover. We also don't put the attacker on their back or look to dominate in the tackle, which gives you an extra second or two to set the defensive line. Whilst we only conceded 18 points yesterday and looked pretty strong in general, particularly up the middle, I still think it's an area we can improve.

You think your forward dominated ours? Really?.

I agree with Wellens and if Hohaia has been signed to be fullback, you will be far more dynamic next year. I also agree with Shenton he has no where near score enough tries (I have him in my fantasy rugby team )