I'd forgot about Wiki, but he certainly didn't do it in one season.

Backrowers are forwards and you stated

our forwards are less impressive. At this moment I do not see a potential GB youngster in any of our academy forwards

Therefore i merely pointed out your statement was wrong and saints are producing lots of top class young forwards with the potential to go all the way

So what is it you are saying?? Just come right out with it! Then we all know what you honest opinion is!!

Lets get it out in the open before he pulls on the Leeds shirt!!

In realitiy he was a loose forward who played some centre and was moved into the front row at the start of this season!

I'm talking mainly about props. That said, none of the back rowers coming through are in Burgess' class. Don't seem close.

How many Sam Burgess' or James Graham's come along though? They're outstanding players and it's difficult to reproduce top quality players in that mould. Leeds haven't produced a top class prop forward and neither have Wigan, yet ourselves and Bradford have. For that we can be grateful.

Frodsham is a player who is being touted as a future star, so maybe with time he could develop into a fine forward, we don't know yet.

I do agree we need a prop for next season, but top quality ones are in short supply, certainly available ones anyway.

Indeed. Frodsham hasn't had the good fortune Burgess has to have matured physically at such a young age. Frodsham is a big lad but he still looks a bit like a gangly teenager and at the top level gets knocked around accordingly. Over the next couple of years he should gain a lot of bulk and natural strength and will hopefully be able to make the same impact at senior level that he obviously has in the juniors.

Let's not forget Graham didn't have a Burgess-esque instant impact either. It took a couple of seasons of cameo appearances before he began to make a genuine impression.

generally props only come into their peak in their mid twenties, and can play to a good standard into their mid 30's, ala steve price and baloo. Graham and burgess are freaks, but couldeasily burn out like fielden. We shouldn't judge Frodsham for a while yet, IMO

Also keep in mind the players like peacock who will convert to prop!! I think ellis would be a mean prop!! Have you seen him in the nrl? he's massive!! He was big at Leeds, Now he's just a monster!!

well exactly, my point is you cant really judge young forwards too early. I think ashurst could one day be a prop. Even farrell moved to prop and had a good couple of seasons there

They are not as good as him at the equivalent age, but that doesnt mean they wont end up as good if not better than him in the longer run.
Burgess was and is a physical freak, who was very big at a young age.
I doubt if he will actually develop physically much more than what we get now.

We can be grateful, but self-congratulation should be out of our system by now. It's five, perhaps six years since Graham was touted as a potential GB prop. In that time we haven't produced so much as an effective prop. If we carry on at this rate we'll be waiting another twenty years for Graham's successor. And that's not an acceptable scenario.

To have any chance of mounting a serious title challenge you need a great pack. And prop is the most important position of all. They're the guys you base your pack around. Wigan are the perfect example of a team that over the years has had some pretty decent backs which have never had the platform to realise their potential.



You're right - we don't. And with no word of a replacement for Cayless yet this takes on a slightly worrying significance. Look, I'm not suggesting that every prop or second row we produce should be another Graham or Burgess respectively - but they are the targets we must aim at. Perhaps Dixon & Ashurst will work out - but again, we don't know that. At this moment they're not showing any extraordinary form. Unfortunately we are letting go extraordinary players - Sculthorpe, Gilmour and when you consider his form when he arrived - Cayless. It doesn't take a genius to see a net loss looming.

Didnt Leeds produce Morley?

If burgess or graham do half of what moz has done they will have had a good go at it! Leeds also produced Anderson, fozzard and carvell! Or did you mean in the last few years? Danny ward and bailey have also played for gb and dowes is a very underated frontrower!

GB Pub teams?

that lad from oldham who joined a wigan junior team?

Wardy is a full international!! If he wasn't anythng like a good prop he wouldn't be within a mile of a brain mac team!! And he just got himself a new contract! But I would think he still likes a good session!! But he has got his game back on track big time