I know this is incredibly unambitious of me to say but I'd like us to sign O'Brien as back up. He really gave us a bit of direction on the pitch and was a decent kicker. It's a better option than playing Wilkin there.

He's 19 I believe, so will be at the end of his junior contract, so who knows, money talks.

I initially scoffed at some of the numbers suggested wheeler was on on the other forum, but the more I thought about it it made sense - the majority of that, plus the promise of regular first team action could sway it in our favour?

This is one of those cases where being away from St Helens means I don't get the word of mouth gossip.

So what in the flying bollocking hell are you all talking about, Walsh leaving ? He's only just got here ! What on earth would make him leave after just half a dozen matches !

Have a look at Redvee, all will be revealed.

Does this mean we can accept the conclusion of that thread, and put the rope away?

Just a bit less cryptic than here.

True, I do wonder since it's now not a secret why it doesn't have it's own thread! Most on their though are concluding he'll see out his contract.

Maybe we should send Walsh's missus round to roby's missus - she wouldn't stand for such nonsense like going to Australia

I've avoided putting it into a thread of it's own as it's all very unconfirmed. Would not wish to be seen to be undermining the club.

People have also self censored themselves. (which is appreciated)

Going back to our original topic, watch the Widnes highlight on the SL website and have a look at the widnes try around 3:20.
Chris Dean effectively blocks John Wilkin from chasing the winger for about 20 yards. I can not imagine Sean O'L (or any other decent back row for that matter)letting the opposition so easily negate him.
Not combative at all.

Fair enough having players like Roby and Soliola, who are tough tacklers but have a more [iquiet man[/i persona, but I'm afraid we have too many lads who are just lacking a bit in the face of a fierce challenge, whether that being by not competing physically, going hiding when we need them, sulking and whining, or panicking in defence.

When we all turn up and play to our potential 1-17, we are worthy of all the plaudits that Saints fans have been criticised of claiming for their "on paper team", but between having a couple of weak links in vital spots, some players performing very inconsistently and questionable selection policies, it may still leave us shy of a trophy for another year.

Unless we add some leadership and fire to the team we are going to win nothing unless we get very lucky. Walsh would be a potential captain if he stays but that still leaves us a couple of aggressive forwards short. I'd kill for another Scully, I'd even take another Sonny Nuckle at this moment in time.

Isn't his true of most teams at the moment though? The only 2 "leaders" in the comp at the moment are sinfield and o'loughlin imo, and they are both over 30. Warrington desperately need a leader, hull have been missing one for years to tie everything together, and Huddersfield couldn't compete on the big stage despite being the best team in the comp last year because they're leader is too busy dummy spitting.

The best leaders are home grown, (but that's not to say every home grown player can become a leader) - if graham had of stayed we'd of been set. Wellens imo is a good leader for the team (ducks for cover) but doesn't necessarily warrent long minutes. Personally, I'd like us to hand the captaincy to lomax next year, let him grow into the role and become a club wide voice. Another option is Amor, but i don't know if he plays enough minutes for the role.

Other options are thin on the ground. Walsh would make a good captain, but who knows how long he'll be around. Soliola and Roby lead by example, but aren't vocal enough as you say.

I've noticed Makinson is very vocal and encouraging. If we've conceded a try and we're stood at the back of the sticks, it's him who's trying to fire our team up.

Maybe it's the pie eater in him Seriously though I played in a Wigan based team for the majority of my amateur playing days and softness, lack of effort or heart and giving up simply wasn't accepted by players, coaches and speccies alike. Maybe it is a cultural thing?? I've seen bad Wigan teams but I've never seen a soft one