He's not making loads of breaks but defenders have to account for him, so it does make a bit more space and time for those around him.

And is that helping us make breaks as I don't see us making many ?

He's a centre and will never make a 6. Sure if we have injuries play him there but we have two stand offs sat in the stand last week not making the 17.

He's a good attacking centre, but my point is that when neither of our halves offer any running threat or even take the line on at all then the team becomes totally easy to defend against. For that reason I think it's worth sacrificing his attacking game at centre for the benefit of the team as a whole.

I'd rather have Fages at 6, too, but if KC isn't going to do that then Turner is the best option IMO.

In any case, I'd be looking to offload Turner at the end of the year and replace him with someone who excels in one position. He's a good centre with the ball in hand but his defence is appalling. As a stand off he's functional but not a lot more than that.

Talking of breaks, has anyone got the stats of where we stand making clean breaks compared to other teams ?

We don't look great at the moment, but I think we looked a lot worse with Burns and Walsh in the halves. It's not just about making breaks but about stopping defences from getting loads of numbers into tackles and stopping us gaining ground. I agree that Turner isn't a stand off, but at least when he plays there the opposition have to consider the possibility that one of our ball players might run the ball.

As I posted above, I'd rather see Fages at 6, but I'd have Turner there before Burns. I don't know how much more of Turner's defence at centre I can handle, either. At least when he's playing 6 he defends one further out.

Where did it all go wrong lol

Quote: St pete "Talking of breaks, has anyone got the stats of where we stand making clean breaks compared to other teams ?'" So far this year we have made 27 clean breaks, putting us currently joint 5th. Interestingly Wigan despite winning a game more are all the way down in 10th. Inspite of all the issues raised by Saints fans, were also joint 2nd for total tries scored, with only Widnes scoring more (in an extra game). www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... club_stats

Quote: St pete "Talking of breaks, has anyone got the stats of where we stand making clean breaks compared to other teams ?'" So far this year we have made 27 clean breaks, putting us currently joint 5th. Interestingly Wigan despite winning a game more are all the way down in 10th. Inspite of all the issues raised by Saints fans, were also joint 2nd for total tries scored, with only Widnes scoring more (in an extra game). www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... club_stats

Vea and Swift are our main contributors to clean breaks, they are the ones doing the tackle busts alongside LMS and Walmsley, anybody else noticed we are using Walmsley a bit different this year we are using him as a decoy more and he has reduced his offloads.

I think the fact he takes on the line unlike Walsh means he draws players to him. Whether or not he breaks through

I was assuming that Fages would be used to take up that role.

Stats wise Turner has gone from being one of our best tackle busters and clean breakers to currently being one of the worse. His miss tackle ratio has't changed, the only difference I have noticed is that he is an "extra boot" and an extra "arm wrestler".

As we know Turner is one of our "projects", personally I thought it would be far easier to develop his defensive skills at centre position than to develop his creative, handling, defensive, kicking skills at stand off.

There's not really anything wrong with tackling, though. It's his decision making in defence that's bad - he ball-watches all the time. At least when he's defending one further out he has fewer decisions to make. No coach has been able to sort out his defence yet, so I don't see it happening now.

As mentioned above, he's not going to set the world on fire at 6, but he will make more room for others. I don't think it's a coincidence that we've started scoring tries out side with him at 6.