I think we we seeing what 5 years of poor or no recruitment can do to a team, we are no longer the entertainers, we depend on good go forward to lay the platform for robes to do his stuff or we need penalties.

We can no longer go the length of the field with the backs we have, I doubt any could do the length without getting caught. The backs are basically poor, we've go no back that can make a break or even make anything happen. I'd say they are the worst set of backs I've seen play for saints since I've watched saints. This lot couldn't even lace the boots of the likes of Tanner, Quirk, hunte, loughlin, Neil Holding, tea Ropati, Save Lyon, Darren Bloor, Vievers, mark Bailey, Gus o'donnel, Shane cooper etc.

We've lost some worldclass backs over the super league era, the likes of Newlove, Iro, Gidley, Lyon, Long, Scully Goulding and other top players like Sullivan, Albert, Martyn but we've never replaced them with quality, I know it's near impossible to replace Newlove, Long, Lyon, Scully etc but we should be getting the next best we can.

McManus brainwashed saints fans that we was going with youth, telling us it's the only way forward, telling us we've got the best youth in the country but I'm sorry, that was total tripe, it was us doing it on the cheap! Fair enough, we had a new stadium to pay for but why not just tell the truth? Where is this youth now? We are full of player 30yrs old plus!

I said the lack of recruitment would come back and bite us but I got the usual response on here by the brainwashed was we've got all these great kids so we don't need to bring players in, yeah right!

To be fair though last year was the first year outside the top 2. This is what I mean by unrealistic expectations of a sporting cycle.

Look at the down years at other clubs and look at the years of our slim pickings. There is no comparison.

We were always going to have to come down from winning titles, what happened to the likes of Wigan, Hull, Bradford after their glory days.

If this is our down time then fair enough, but lets not get all amature dramatic and believe we have been hard done to in this time. Where is our brush with relegation, where is our time not making finals and not even looking likely to get close.

For our poorest side since the start of SL, then 3rd is pretty much astounding not discraceful.

Well said

No one is saying we're underperforming though, just that Saints aren't and haven't been trying hard enough to build a squad capable of winning trophies. We'll still be discussing how we just need one or two players when we've past the 10 years without a trophy mark.

Well I see Wigan got beaten by the wire tonight by even more than we did, so should they also be discussing a clear out.

6 years without a trophy is not what we want obviously, but are we not trying hard enough? I'll agree we have got things wrong, but I don't see that as a lack of trying, just a lack of getting it right for the very very top of our sport. If we where not trying, why would we panic by Lance?

Surely if we where not trying we would have just said Lomax and Gaskell are doing ok lets not bother.

I'll say it again - In the last 2 years we'veWon a bidding war for the current 1st choice GB centre
Signed an Ossie international prop
Signed an Ossie international 2nd row
Signed NZ's World-Cup winning full-back
Re-signed TP despite determined competition from money-no-object Wire
Re-signed Sia on a long contract against competition from money-no-object NRL clubs
Signed probably the best 2nd row in the country over the last few seasons
Offered Eastmond the same money as a money-no-object RU club[/list

If that's "a lack of ambition" and "settling for mediocrity" then FFS I hope Saints and Big Mac and co. continue being similarly "unambitious" for at least the next 20 years. "Lack of ambition" for me all the way, please.

We cannot compete with Wire and their accountants in raw financial terms. Nobody can. You're an utter idiot if you think that we realistically could, or that we should be attempting to do so. We are doing pretty bloody well compared to the rest of the league thank you very much.

Please don't talk sense, the doom and gloom merchants will bust a blood vessel. It really doesn't suit their agendas to even consider any of the points that you have raised.

Do you think replacing James graham with a average NRL backrow was good recruitment?

Do you think signing a NRL fullback in lance hohaia to play at stand off is good recruitment?

Do you think never replacing centres is good recruitment? We've played with one centre since willie talau went, we've had wheeler, flannery, jones, Meli all cover there and non have made any real impact!

When McManus publicly told us we will have a team to grace the new stadium, did you think the 3 we brought in graced the stadium?

Also, the retention is shocking

If nobody better was on the market at the time that didn't come with a transfer fee, then quite possibly. I think he's been a good signing though probably not the bullocking prop we need.



Nope - desperation signing but understandable given that we were suddenly faced with no #6 or #7 for this season at the start of last (a position that you can rightly argue was down to bad judgement on Saints part with Pryce and Eastmond's contracts). He was simply the best player on the market that had ever worn a #6 on his back at the time. You can argue that Saints had little choice but to gamble on him. A gamble that has spectacularly failed so far....



Replacing them with what? Who's been on the market without a transfer fee involved since Talua left that was any better than other players we had at the club at the time? Shenton - signed him. That's more or less it...



We're not discussing the quality of decision making in recruitment, much of which has indeed not been great (but I think still understandable given circumstances at the time). We're discussing the preposterous allegations of a "lack of ambition" on Saints' behalf. Again - you can with some justification make an argument over the quality of some of Saints' recruitment. There is no way whatsover you can question the ambition of it.

I've got problem with our retention/recruitment for few years now and IMO the lack of and in some cases poor recruitment has cist us grand final wins.

I think the club has lost some ambition, no matter what sport it is, teams need to build on success and not just sit back and stay satisfied, we should have been looking to replace scully, long, KC, gidley etc nearer the time and not waiting until they was finished and start panicking.

When you consider we lost eastmond, graham, Moore and pryce last year who was big big earners and replaced them with hohaia, Laffranchi and flanaghan then IMO that shows signs of lack of ambition and also signs of doing it on the cheap.

From what I can remember, the money behind our board eclipses the money SJM brings to the Warrington table. We have some very rich men on the board.

I think they are more prepared to splash the cash on players more than our board.

When was the last time we paid for a player?

Love Warrington or hate them, they ate a club with ambition.

[iWith who?[/i

Warrington's remarkable salary-cap handling apart, it is utterly impossible for any SL club to have big-money players on the field and similar quality younger replacements in the reserves as well. Where are Leeds' ready-made replacements for Sinfield, Webb, McGuire, Burrow, Peacock in their squad now all lined up to spring seamlessly into action when they're all gone in a few seasons? Where are Wigan's replacements for Leuluai, Carmont, Richards, Lima, Finch, Fielden right now? Are Leeds' and Wigans' recruitment rubbish as well? Don't talk such unutterable nonsense.

No, they are a club with money... Money we simply [ido not have[/i right now. We've lost 4 million quid in the last 2 years FFS...... Would you be happier if we sold LP, ground-shared permanently at Naughton Park and used the cash to start competing with Warrington's transfer fees?

Read the post that I replied to!

He stated we had a very rich board, I stated that their board are prepared to pay transfer fees.

If that not correct?