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Phil Bentham scoured the video tape and despite conclusive evidence that Smith was a half yard offside, he allowed the try to stand. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saints are a big-game team with bags of big-game experience. They have won five Challenge Cups from six final appearances in the Super League era and have won five Grand Finals in that time too. Add two World Club Championships to that and you have the roll-call of the best rugby league team this country has produced in the modern-era - and it's a phenomenal record. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ancient & Royal wrote.... "You are proud to be associated with that dis-organised band of mercenaries? I am ashamed to be a Wigan fan hell yes, what have we got to be un-ashamed about? We are a joke, a laughing stock, we are NOTHING, why cant people understand!":11659.jpg



Quote: jonah77 "i agree sgt wilko, this thread was set up and since the first post there have been twenty odd posts jumping on the bandwagon.

yes he made mistakes, notably the 5th tackle which was 4th. every ref makes mistakes in every sport, but i think friday nights decisions were not mistakes in the main. He noticed unsporting antics and decided there was no disadvantages so why slow play down and penalise minor misdemeanors.'"


Persistent holding down to gain an advantage in defence is not minor. It used to be a sin binning, he never even had a word with the teams, which you used to see nearly every single week. The referees are simply choosing not to award penalties for holding down unless it is the most glaring example like a last ditch cover tackle and nobody else is back to form the defensive line.

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He was awful.

His touch judges weren't much better though.

The worrying aspect is that since referees went 'full time', they standard of officiating has declined in my opinion.

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[quote="Odemwingie":34o3cs52] I hope his career is over.(regarding danny mcguires injury 2010 play offs)[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Ewwenorfolk":34o3cs52] I'm glad McGuire got injured, hope he's out for about 10 months[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Bulls4Champs2010":34o3cs52]Price, Civ, Beaver, Moz and Wiki. Peacock is not in the catagory of these special players.[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="McLaren_Field":34o3cs52] To be fair, their teams are also inconsequential to their own fans judging by the amount of traffic that all the other boards get [/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Warrington Wolf":34o3cs52]If you win the weekly rounds then without doubt you are the champions.[/quote:34o3cs52]:



Quote: Big Dave Fairleigh "I said that and I still say it. On the assumption that the penalties were for genuine offences. An offence is still an offence whether the ref turns a blind eye or not.

Explain to me how Friday's game was under reffed. It was positively under reffed. If there is a such a term! Does a boxing referee not step in and pull two boxers apart when they start holding each other and it gets scrappy? The same principal applies. SL is about skill, speed,athleticism and entertainment. It is not a wrestling match. Give the penalties where needed and set the stall out that holding down won't be tolerated. That way you might get a skilful entertaining match without the 30 pens! Let the players push it to the limit and you get this slow, boring garbage that you seem to crave. I'm sure the great Wigan side of the 80's and early 90's wouldn't have liked being stifled by weak refereeing either. Then again I don't think the likes of Holdsworth was shy with the whistle unlike Bentham.

You still haven't explained how, despite all this woefully weak refereeing, we are still top and in the cup? Doesn't seem to make any difference in terms of pulling us down does it? It is ruining the spectacle though. Perhaps you really want that.
In this tread you all have a beef with the holding down which week in week out saints are the worst/best at(depending on your point of view) with Leeds and hudds!! You post like saints are the only team not doing the holding!!

Thailer refed the game the same for both teams!! He didn't hammer one team and let the other get away with it!! In very wet conditions, he refed a derby with without giving pen after pen and let the teams battle it out!! Which for me was great to watch!! I think thailer should get a pat on the back for this!! Instead saints fans hammer the ref in game you won!!

I think the real problem for some of you is that you want a pen when saints get held down but turn a blind eye when you are defending as you are the kings of hands in! Where as Leeds are kings of the ball strip and hudds are kings of the wrestle!

On Friday You wernt allowed your cake and didn't get to eat it!! Good on ya thailer!! It's refreshing to see a game with out 20 pens in it!

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Quote: sgtwilko "I think it's you who is the child!! The game is over refed!! I'm board of ganson smith and bentham!! Most of the others arnt much better!! the fact that a saints fan posted in this thread that he would rather see 30 pens in a game and 12 trys than half a dozen pens and 4 trys says it all!! As I have already said I'm sick of watching the refs march teams around the park for 80 mins!! Of course as saints fans you want this!! And it's obvious why!! But most of you are unwilling to recognize your teams floors so we can't have a reasoned debate about it!!'"


At the risk of getting into a nah nah nana syndrome with you, the fact that you are bored with the rules of rugby and how they are applied is neither here or there. They are the rules and if we are to disregard them the game becomes null and void. If the game depressess you so much then find another game to watch.

St Helens have built there game on fast plays of the ball, which means getting off the floor fast. Whilst referees allow people to mess around at the play of the ball, lie on etc etc they are failing to do their job, which is to apply the rules to a given situation. If you want NRL type rugby then watch NRL rugby, do not apply your fancies to the British game.

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[quote="Odemwingie":34o3cs52] I hope his career is over.(regarding danny mcguires injury 2010 play offs)[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Ewwenorfolk":34o3cs52] I'm glad McGuire got injured, hope he's out for about 10 months[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Bulls4Champs2010":34o3cs52]Price, Civ, Beaver, Moz and Wiki. Peacock is not in the catagory of these special players.[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="McLaren_Field":34o3cs52] To be fair, their teams are also inconsequential to their own fans judging by the amount of traffic that all the other boards get [/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Warrington Wolf":34o3cs52]If you win the weekly rounds then without doubt you are the champions.[/quote:34o3cs52]:



Quote: hooperman "the fact that you are bored with the rules of rugby.'"
I'm not bored with the rules I'm board of fans moaning when they don't get it all their own way from the refs

Quote: hooperman "If the game depressess you so much then find another game to watch.'"
I love my rugby league it doesn't depressess in the slightest!!

Quote: hooperman "St Helens have built there game on fast plays of the ball, which means getting off the floor fast. Whilst referees allow people to mess around at the play of the ball, lie on etc etc they are failing to do their job'"


this is saints fans in a nut shell!!! TranslationIf you want NRL type rugby then watch NRL rugby'"
I do and I love it!! The game is much quicker with 2 refs but there is still a great ruck contest !! We haven't got 6 good refs let alone the 12 that would be needed to run the same system !! Before the 2 refs The slow play the ball was tough to watch at times but what it did do was develop some of the most creative backs of all time!! Which ment there were/are amazing games the like of which are a lot less frequant to sl!!

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Quote: sgtwilko "I think it's you who is the child!! The game is over refed!! I'm board of ganson smith and bentham!! Most of the others arnt much better!! the fact that a saints fan posted in this thread that he would rather see 30 pens in a game and 12 trys than half a dozen pens and 4 trys says it all!! As I have already said I'm sick of watching the refs march teams around the park for 80 mins!! Of course as saints fans you want this!! And it's obvious why!! But most of you are unwilling to recognize your teams floors so we can't have a reasoned debate about it!!'"
as a saints and rugby fan i would rather see continuous fast paced rugby than stop start, even if at times it goes against saints favour. cliche it may be but decisions do iron out in the long run! if it means some fisticuffs along the way then so be it. Refs are empowered to make decisions, in the interests of keeping the game flowing if decisions go against you then just get on with it. The players do, repect to them! when we get people moaning about forward pass this and knock on that on forums such as this then omg, move on.

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Quote: sgtwilko "it's like debating with a brick wall!! At no point did I say Fridays game was over refed!! Nor do I crave dull rugby, but I like other fans prefer the defensive aspect of the game more than the attack!! That's just my preference!! I like the contest at the ruck!! Please stay with me on this and I will try and give my views on the game!! it seems to me your biggest beef with the refing isthe holding down! I think our game needs to evolve in sl as it has in Australia!! The problem we have at international level is our backs are so used to sl defence where there are massive holes to run through that we don't have a clue how to unlock tight defenses!! Which is a problem at your own club!! You are the best attacking team around running at a tierd disjointed defence but look cluless against a tight well drilled defensive line!! The play the ball is slower now than in other seasons but this will make our game stronger especially at international level, teams will become more creative in attack!! Lets be honest people are saying this sl has Been the best ever not the worst !! I think the nrl at it's peek had gone too far and was too slow but the game on Friday was far from boaring!! Whilst holding down for fans is frustrating it's just a frustrating for me seeing an almost tag style rugby where teams are looking to drop to their knees and spring up for Lighting play the balls!! Saints are constantly looking for the fast play the ball as all teams are!! But saints are also looking to lay on, have hands in, pull the ball out and turn player on their backs! You can't be top of the league with the second best defense if you wernt!! In this tread you all have a beef with the holding down which week in week out saints are the worst/best at(depending on your point of view) with Leeds and hudds!! You post like saints are the only team not doing the holding!!

Thailer refed the game the same for both teams!! He didn't hammer one team and let the other get away with it!! In very wet conditions, he refed a derby with without giving pen after pen and let the teams battle it out!! Which for me was great to watch!! I think thailer should get a pat on the back for this!! Instead saints fans hammer the ref in game you won!!

I think the real problem for some of you is that you want a pen when saints get held down but turn a blind eye when you are defending as you are the kings of hands in! Where as Leeds are kings of the ball strip and hudds are kings of the wrestle!

On Friday You wernt allowed your cake and didn't get to eat it!! Good on ya thailer!! It's refreshing to see a game with out 20 pens in it!'"


agree with a lot of stuff you said m8, but i am not having the point on looking clueless against a tight well drilled defense. It is a bizzare statement. How many tight and well drilled defenses have we come up agianst in the past 4 seasons. meaning how many times have we failed to score a few tries. As a percentage this is low!

Anyway, I am sure it is in every coaches game plan to be tight and well drilled in defense so I suppose you could say they set out to be just that. In the majority of games we have no problems breaking down that well drilled defense do we?

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[quote="Odemwingie":34o3cs52] I hope his career is over.(regarding danny mcguires injury 2010 play offs)[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Ewwenorfolk":34o3cs52] I'm glad McGuire got injured, hope he's out for about 10 months[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Bulls4Champs2010":34o3cs52]Price, Civ, Beaver, Moz and Wiki. Peacock is not in the catagory of these special players.[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="McLaren_Field":34o3cs52] To be fair, their teams are also inconsequential to their own fans judging by the amount of traffic that all the other boards get [/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Warrington Wolf":34o3cs52]If you win the weekly rounds then without doubt you are the champions.[/quote:34o3cs52]:



Quote: jonah77 "agree with a lot of stuff you said m8, but i am not having the point on looking clueless against a tight well drilled defense. It is a bizzare statement. How many tight and well drilled defenses have we come up agianst in the past 4 seasons. meaning how many times have we failed to score a few tries. As a percentage this is low!

Anyway, I am sure it is in every coaches game plan to be tight and well drilled in defense so I suppose you could say they set out to be just that. In the majority of games we have no problems breaking down that well drilled defense do we?'"
clueless is maybe a bit strong!! But if you arnt getting a quick play the ball you have no real plan b !!

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Quote: sgtwilko "clueless is maybe a bit strong!! But if you arnt getting a quick play the ball you have no real plan b !!'"

That's what we're working on this season, silly. It's probably one reason why our form hasn't been great. We've been adjusting to the new regime, play the ball wise.

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Quote: sgtwilko "clueless is maybe a bit strong!! But if you arnt getting a quick play the ball you have no real plan b !!'"
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Phil Bentham scoured the video tape and despite conclusive evidence that Smith was a half yard offside, he allowed the try to stand. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saints are a big-game team with bags of big-game experience. They have won five Challenge Cups from six final appearances in the Super League era and have won five Grand Finals in that time too. Add two World Club Championships to that and you have the roll-call of the best rugby league team this country has produced in the modern-era - and it's a phenomenal record. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ancient & Royal wrote.... "You are proud to be associated with that dis-organised band of mercenaries? I am ashamed to be a Wigan fan hell yes, what have we got to be un-ashamed about? We are a joke, a laughing stock, we are NOTHING, why cant people understand!":11659.jpg



Quote: sgtwilko "it's like debating with a brick wall!! At no point did I say Fridays game was over refed!! Nor do I crave dull rugby, but I like other fans prefer the defensive aspect of the game more than the attack!! That's just my preference!! I like the contest at the ruck!! Please stay with me on this and I will try and give my views on the game!! it seems to me your biggest beef with the refing isthe holding down! I think our game needs to evolve in sl as it has in Australia!! The problem we have at international level is our backs are so used to sl defence where there are massive holes to run through that we don't have a clue how to unlock tight defenses!! Which is a problem at your own club!! You are the best attacking team around running at a tierd disjointed defence but look cluless against a tight well drilled defensive line!! The play the ball is slower now than in other seasons but this will make our game stronger especially at international level, teams will become more creative in attack!! Lets be honest people are saying this sl has Been the best ever not the worst !! I think the nrl at it's peek had gone too far and was too slow but the game on Friday was far from boaring!! Whilst holding down for fans is frustrating it's just a frustrating for me seeing an almost tag style rugby where teams are looking to drop to their knees and spring up for Lighting play the balls!! Saints are constantly looking for the fast play the ball as all teams are!! But saints are also looking to lay on, have hands in, pull the ball out and turn player on their backs! You can't be top of the league with the second best defense if you wernt!!

In this tread you all have a beef with the holding down which week in week out saints are the worst/best at(depending on your point of view) with Leeds and hudds!! You post like saints are the only team not doing the holding!!

Thailer refed the game the same for both teams!! He didn't hammer one team and let the other get away with it!! In very wet conditions, he refed a derby with without giving pen after pen and let the teams battle it out!! Which for me was great to watch!! I think thailer should get a pat on the back for this!! Instead saints fans hammer the ref in game you won!!

I think the real problem for some of you is that you want a pen when saints get held down but turn a blind eye when you are defending as you are the kings of hands in! Where as Leeds are kings of the ball strip and hudds are kings of the wrestle!

On Friday You wernt allowed your cake and didn't get to eat it!! Good on ya thailer!! It's refreshing to see a game with out 20 pens in it!'"


Quote: sgtwilko "[sizeI think it's you who is the child!! The game is over refed!! [/sizeI'm board of ganson smith and bentham!! Most of the others arnt much better!! the fact that a saints fan posted in this thread that he would rather see 30 pens in a game and 12 trys than half a dozen pens and 4 trys says it all!! As I have already said I'm sick of watching the refs march teams around the park for 80 mins!! Of course as saints fans you want this!! And it's obvious why!! But most of you are unwilling to recognize your teams floors so we can't have a reasoned debate about it!!'"


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[quote="Odemwingie":34o3cs52] I hope his career is over.(regarding danny mcguires injury 2010 play offs)[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Ewwenorfolk":34o3cs52] I'm glad McGuire got injured, hope he's out for about 10 months[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Bulls4Champs2010":34o3cs52]Price, Civ, Beaver, Moz and Wiki. Peacock is not in the catagory of these special players.[/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="McLaren_Field":34o3cs52] To be fair, their teams are also inconsequential to their own fans judging by the amount of traffic that all the other boards get [/quote:34o3cs52] [quote="Warrington Wolf":34o3cs52]If you win the weekly rounds then without doubt you are the champions.[/quote:34o3cs52]:



Quote: Big Dave Fairleigh "Owned.
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Quote: sgtwilko "it's like debating with a brick wall!! At no point did I say Fridays game was over refed!! Nor do I crave dull rugby, but I like other fans prefer the defensive aspect of the game more than the attack!! That's just my preference!! I like the contest at the ruck...'"


There is a fair way to contest at the ruck, and there is unfair interference. Holding the player down too long, leaving the arm in, and a player dropping in late, isn't improving the game - it is slowing the game down without using any skill. It is dumbing down the defensive game.

If you like the defensive aspect of the game, surely you would want the defending team to earn winning the ruck, and to earn slowing the other team down. Otherwise the defending team control of the ruck is pretty much dictated by the referee.

I want quick, fast flowing rugby with fair play around the ruck. It doesn't need to be lightening, but it needs to be fair and consistently refereed.

This is my opinion as a Rugby fan, not just a Saints fan. I don't know why you have to keep muddying the waters with accusations of wanting the rules to suit St Helens. It is not the case for most fans.

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Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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