To say we have a sound base is an understatement. We have a base on which you can win titles. I mean, he's in a far better situation than either Tony Smith or Maguire when they arrived at their teams.

Exactly, and Maguire got an averagely performing wigan side to the title in one season

Do we really?

Fullback - No quality. Plenty of players who could be fullbacks, Makinson and Hohaia could be good SL fullbacks
Wings - Makinson is a decent player, but doesn't get involved enough, doesn't appear to be anything in the academy either
Centres - Josh Jones has the potential to be a solid, unspectacular, Talau-esque crashball centre. But other than him we look weak
Half backs - J-Lo is a decent player but I'm not convinced he'll ever find a position. He's no half back, neither is Hohaia. Gaskell appears to be out of favour and although easily our best half, he's not a standout even in SL.
Prop - TP is a quality player, but playing his last season next year. LMS is a quality impact prop. Perry is terrible and Clough a typical 'solid but unspectacular' player. Laffranchi isn't a prop in a million years and gets bullied by all the good packs.
Hooker - The one position in which we do have a standout international player
Backrow - Soliola is developing into a quality player and was less of a liability defensively last season. Manu should bring some fire to the pack and with Robes, TP, Sia and Manu in the 13 we should have a decent pack.
Youth - Our academy teams don't seem to be winning the competitions anymore. I can't name an exciting prospect at the moment, and the players on the verge of the squad like Ashe, Swift, Greenwood etc don't seem to have much about them.

The way I'd describe Saints at the moment is 'solid'. Leeds and Warrington have better teams and better youth prospects than us at the moment. Given how utterly rubbish SL is outside the top 4 or 5 we appear to be close to winning trophies, but I can't see us winning any over the next few years unless our recruitment improves.

Really? So why do we keep not winning any titles then?

He's just saying what every coach will say when they come to a new job, or indeed at any other time if they wish to keep their job. He may well think he's got a lousy bunch of players for all we know.

Yes. We finished fourth last year and second a million season in a row before that. Now if that isn't a base to win titles on then what is? If we get a 10% improvement on last year we'll win the competition.

Saints are in a similar situation to when Eric Hughes was in charge, a solid base to work on, but needing an extra something that Shaun McCrae added, that brought the trophys back to Saints for the first time in years. History has shown that McCrae was no wonder coach, but he was good enough to bring the good times back. We don't have the luxury of some of the players that he had, but the gap that he had to overcome, especially to Wigan, is similar to the gap that brown now faces.

Shaun McRae also brought in Gibbs, Goulding and Apollo in his first year which was pure quality.

Goulding sign for us in 94 same as gidds and Apollo McRae joined 96 so that doesnt work out

I agree with McClennan that we have a sound base that, with a bit of tweaking and augmenting, could go on to produce a title winning side. But Brown isn't in the same situation McCrae was in when he took over. McCrae inherited a side with some genuine superstars in it (Cunningham, Goulding, Martyn, Newlove) - and a supporting cast of very good players (Sullivan, Hunte, Joynt, Perelini, Gibbs, Prescott). At the moment we've got one player who would fit into the first category (Roby) and a handful who would fit in the second (Puletua, Soliola, Manu, Lomax?, Wellens?). That '96 side just needed some direction and discipline. This side needs more than that. We're lacking someone who can dictate a game and more generally we could do with a bit of flair and unpredictability.

On the plus side, we consistently produce a higher standard of young player now than we did then, and we also have more strength in depth.

I thought there first season was the first super league season ?

Not sure like.

Nah, they all signed for the 94-5 season.

We finished third, not fourth, in 2011 and 2012, and this year we were ejected from the CC in the quarters, first time in 12 years, and didn't make it to the GF, first time in 7 years, so I'd say that we now have a less likely 'base' than we have had in a number of years as we achieved less than we had been achieving for years.

Unless, of course, we achieved less this year because we had a terrible coach.

Whichever is the case, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating I guess.

McRae brought in Derek McVey, who was outstanding, particularly in the early games of that season. I remember him pretty well destroying the Goons early in the season, and getting us on a roll. McRae also brought in belief, and started the era where you could never write off the Saints. What we did have then, was a Bobby Goulding who not only fired up the team, but also the fans. Best atmosphere I have ever known was in or around the 96 season.

Oh for a half back like Bobby Goulding or Tommy Martin or Sean long now that is essentially what we are missing. Sound base yes, But world class 1, 6, 7, 9? just 1 out of those 4