Ah ok

Foster is nippy but according to some Saints fans he is actually a veritable carthorse! Gaskell is pacey, Lomax is quick in short bursts, Makinson has pace to burn when set free, Shenton isn't slow either. The only members of our backline who do not have real pace are Meli and Wellens, although Meli can shift when he wants to. LMS is also fast, especially for a prop, and James Graham has shown a turn of pace before now. Roby is quick.

Pace wasn't our problem at all. Injuries were, and forwards who didn't do their job in the first half (not for the first time either).

Lomax is more than 'quick in short bursts' and Meli does have real pace, think of the kick intercept 80m try he scored at Leeds earlier this season.

I'd agree with the point on LMS and if anything one of our strengths is our mobile pack.

I thought we had more pace on show than Leeds with the exception of Burrows and Hardaker. We did lack pace on the pass though, especially when we were camped out on the Leeds line, we seemed to be very predictable at times.

Not this ridiculous "we need a speedy winger/centre" c**p again, please.... Saints have more than enough pace - Offiah, Albert, Speedy Gonzalez, The Flash and Superman could all play in our 3/4s and never score if the halves don't pass them the bleedin' ball - THAT is our real problem: a lack of service to the wideouts is an inevitable consequence of sticking with 2 inexperienced halves for the thick end of the season (not that we had much choice mind). They will learn and improve and hopefully the likes of Shenton, Meli and Makinson might actually get the ball in hand at times other than just running it from dummy half next season...

I was having a facebook discussion b4 the game where i actually said Leeds didnt have the skill or speed to beat you.....then it ed it down and suited Leeds style, an arm wrestle. Pace wasnt the issue, the injury to shenton cost you the title. cruising at 16-8 and looking solid defensively and then shenton has a bad injury and leeds score twice down that side. Adaptablility maybe to enforced changes, but definatley not Pace.

Good luck with that. Wigan have been on the hunt for one, for the past 18 months to no avail. So unless your lucky enough to have someone coming through your academy who's good enough to the do the job, then your out of luck.

There's just a real lack of quality centre's about at present, and those that are, command a real premium for their services.

Back to the original point of the thread. I don't feel Saints lack pace, the fact was you never got an opportunity to show it. Gaskel and Lomax were always one pass short of creating something. The gaps were there, but their delivery let you down.

Weve only had 1 centre at the club for a number of years now. The is no balance in only having one centre.

Look at Wigan, we have Joel playing at centre, granted we had Gleeson beforehand. But that's another point, look at the ages of Carmont and Gleeson, two of the best centres knocking about in SL.

Leeds last night had Ablet a backrower playing at centre. Bradford have struggled all year for centre's, so have Catalan's, as have the majority of the lower clubs in SL.

The only two that haven't struggled for centre's have been Wire and Huddersfield. Everyone else is have to make do, and compromise. And no doubt will have have to do the same again next year.

We're not short of pace, we're short of a bit of quality in certain areas particularly in the halves and at full back - although I think Makinson is a brilliant prospect for that position. Gaskell looks a good prospect and I think he'll develop quite nicely in the next two years. Lomax I'm still unsure of his position, I'm not convinced on him as a half back but he's too good a player not to feature in the 13. If we had a half back who could challenge the line and organise the side, I think we'd find points alot easier to come by. Hohaia is a good player and we'll see if he has what it takes, but I reckon he might be more suited to full back or at hooker judging on where he's played alot of his best NRL footy.

Pace is not just speed but more importantly a combination of speed threat and evasion.

Being quick enough to contribute once Saints have bashed down the middle for three tackles until
roby get a quick ptb is one thing.

A player with real menace from your own 20 is another.

Saints stopped being Saints years ago. No offload game , no back play of note. Everything down channel one
for Roby nothing else. It has become boring.

Saints are Bradford of old and that's why Saints lose finals to teams who play like Saints used to and have the flair players
to match.

Keep resigning seasoned runners up who fit this pattern of play such Gardner Flannery and Meli is a statement of intent.
Monotonous also rans is what is the club is content with.

At least in the bridesmaid days of the eighties and early nineties Saints could play football.
These days Saints bore as well as disappoint.

I came away saying to my mate that I thought Saints had played well. I'd love to see their completion rate, it must have been very, very high. However, a lot of this was down to a very conservative gameplan with a lot of forward carries, some kicks early in the count and very few offloads which just isn't the Saints I'm used to playing. I can only assume they were playing to instructions as there are obviously players in that side who can offload.

I still think that it was a good Saints performance given the injury situation poth before and during the match, and the number of young players who were out there. Next time. I'd hope for the same commitment and defence, but a bit more adventure from them.

I don't think a conservative game plan was such a bad idea. Given the number of inexperienced kids out there it made sense not to push the envelope. In a high-pressure atmosphere it would be very easy for a youngster to be overwhelmed so keeping things simple was a logical - if not adventurous - decision.

You mean Wheeler?