I said that and I still say it. On the assumption that the penalties were for genuine offences. An offence is still an offence whether the ref turns a blind eye or not.

Explain to me how Friday's game was under reffed. It was positively under reffed. If there is a such a term! Does a boxing referee not step in and pull two boxers apart when they start holding each other and it gets scrappy? The same principal applies. SL is about skill, speed,athleticism and entertainment. It is not a wrestling match. Give the penalties where needed and set the stall out that holding down won't be tolerated. That way you might get a skilful entertaining match without the 30 pens! Let the players push it to the limit and you get this slow, boring garbage that you seem to crave. I'm sure the great Wigan side of the 80's and early 90's wouldn't have liked being stifled by weak refereeing either. Then again I don't think the likes of Holdsworth was shy with the whistle unlike Bentham.

You still haven't explained how, despite all this woefully weak refereeing, we are still top and in the cup? Doesn't seem to make any difference in terms of pulling us down does it? It is ruining the spectacle though. Perhaps you really want that.

Persistent holding down to gain an advantage in defence is not minor. It used to be a sin binning, he never even had a word with the teams, which you used to see nearly every single week. The referees are simply choosing not to award penalties for holding down unless it is the most glaring example like a last ditch cover tackle and nobody else is back to form the defensive line.

He was awful.

His touch judges weren't much better though.

The worrying aspect is that since referees went 'full time', they standard of officiating has declined in my opinion.

At the risk of getting into a nah nah nana syndrome with you, the fact that you are bored with the rules of rugby and how they are applied is neither here or there. They are the rules and if we are to disregard them the game becomes null and void. If the game depressess you so much then find another game to watch.

St Helens have built there game on fast plays of the ball, which means getting off the floor fast. Whilst referees allow people to mess around at the play of the ball, lie on etc etc they are failing to do their job, which is to apply the rules to a given situation. If you want NRL type rugby then watch NRL rugby, do not apply your fancies to the British game.

I'm not bored with the rules I'm board of fans moaning when they don't get it all their own way from the refs

I love my rugby league it doesn't depressess in the slightest!!



this is saints fans in a nut shell!!! TranslationIf you want NRL type rugby then watch NRL rugby'"

as a saints and rugby fan i would rather see continuous fast paced rugby than stop start, even if at times it goes against saints favour. cliche it may be but decisions do iron out in the long run! if it means some fisticuffs along the way then so be it. Refs are empowered to make decisions, in the interests of keeping the game flowing if decisions go against you then just get on with it. The players do, repect to them! when we get people moaning about forward pass this and knock on that on forums such as this then omg, move on.

agree with a lot of stuff you said m8, but i am not having the point on looking clueless against a tight well drilled defense. It is a bizzare statement. How many tight and well drilled defenses have we come up agianst in the past 4 seasons. meaning how many times have we failed to score a few tries. As a percentage this is low!

Anyway, I am sure it is in every coaches game plan to be tight and well drilled in defense so I suppose you could say they set out to be just that. In the majority of games we have no problems breaking down that well drilled defense do we?

clueless is maybe a bit strong!! But if you arnt getting a quick play the ball you have no real plan b !!

That's what we're working on this season, silly. It's probably one reason why our form hasn't been great. We've been adjusting to the new regime, play the ball wise.

people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

Owned.

There is a fair way to contest at the ruck, and there is unfair interference. Holding the player down too long, leaving the arm in, and a player dropping in late, isn't improving the game - it is slowing the game down without using any skill. It is dumbing down the defensive game.

If you like the defensive aspect of the game, surely you would want the defending team to earn winning the ruck, and to earn slowing the other team down. Otherwise the defending team control of the ruck is pretty much dictated by the referee.

I want quick, fast flowing rugby with fair play around the ruck. It doesn't need to be lightening, but it needs to be fair and consistently refereed.

This is my opinion as a Rugby fan, not just a Saints fan. I don't know why you have to keep muddying the waters with accusations of wanting the rules to suit St Helens. It is not the case for most fans.