There where alot of factors with the Wigan game, but a loss is a loss. Just like I don't like excuses for other teams playing poorly therefore letting Saints win, I don't like to be hypercritical and do the same in reverse. We should have had enough to beat the wigan pack a few times over. Put them on paper and we looked stronger in the forwards.

I don't think the forwards were the big problem for us on the day, the real problem was a lack of half back to dictate the game for us. As soon as Lomax went off our organisation went to pot and it really told in the 2nd half when our forwards were on top and we pounded the Wigan line to score just 1 try. Wigan on the other hand had their key 1,6,7 and 9 and that was ultimately the difference.

yup, thats about the sum of it

But the lack of Roby had no impact on our performances against Bradford and Hull?

Is that what i said?
and what has it got to do with this topic?

STOP DERAILLING THREADS! FINAL WARNING

Firstly, you were claiming the loss of one player made all the difference to our performance against Wigan. While I would agree with you, the loss of Roby was dismissed as a reason for our poor performances against Hull and Bradford. So the point is relevant.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of excuses being made for our senior players, some of whom have consistently NOT shown up in times of adversity. They have been doing it all season, and that is a very relevant point, as once again we had adversity and some of our senior players did not show up. For example, TP hanging around a loose ball instead of scooping it up, nobody covering for Laffranchi when Roby threw the pass to nobody, Josh Perry being too busy trying to wind up Hock to attend to his job of making metres and bashing up the opposition forwards.

Either the absence of a pivot player has an effect on the team or it does not. Either this team has balls/desire or it does not. The question was very relevant to the discussion and needed to be asked. My view is, and has been consistently, that the problem lies with some of our senior players who do not bend their backs when the going gets tough. Notice I don't say our younger players don't bend their backs because I believe they do. In fact, on many occasions our younger players have put our senior players to shame. However, regardless of change in coaching staff and in approach to training, etc, when the going gets tough some of our senior players get going - off in their own little world.

That is the major issue that needs addressing in the team if we are to rescue anything from the season. IMO obviously.

You appear to have a major downer on SaintsFan. You may not like what she has to say, but she has as much right as anyone to make her point. Would suggest that if you don't like it, you ignore her. If you want to ban someone for derailing threads, start with Rogues, who has been doing it for years.

What you're referring to is professionalism which is something that has slowly whittled down under Simmons. Diving on loose balls, covering for others, rushing to form a scrum and preparing for rebounds off the posts when a penalty kick is being taken are all elements of concentration that a well-drilled team operates subconsciously. Little things like these are noticeable.

We did it no problem last season, once we had turned things around at Leeds.

It is indeed professionalism. And I don't think some of our senior players have been the best examples of professionals this season so far (and I include the Wigan game in that).

No, it didn't help.

Wigan played a very good game. I don't know whether its Wane's coaching or the left overs from Maguire, but they play so well as a team. The forwards share the work well, a defend very strongly, whilst out wide their moves look extremely slick. Over 80 minutes it was just too much for us to keep a hold of.

Its that sort of performance that shows that a good team will beat 17 good players.

The bug bear I really have is that we've started looking clueless on the last tackle again, which is pretty inexcusable.

At the end of the day, 2/3 against top teams isn't bad at all and we'd accept that most seasons, never mind if you'd have asked us after the bradford game. For those of you that point to Wire's error count as evidence they didn't play well or take us seriously, that's been consistant for them through the season and they've beaten the like of Wigan and Huddersfield doing the same.

Regarding the players, well 1-5 all have their pros and cons. 6&7 are good players, even if we're waiting to be convinced of their combination. The forwards are a very good set of players, imo.

I'd say Brown is rubbing his hands at the chance to take on this squad.

Whilst we finished the season strongly (except the last game), it wasn't all rosey after that night at Leeds. The game against Wigan at the Stobart would be the example when they gave us a right shalaking in a similar fashion to last week.

You've called the senior players and I've interperated that as being a physical sense - working hard, putting your body on the line etc, but the thing I think we're lacking is the mental side of proffesionalism. We don't seem to have that guy who can command the team to do the right thing at the right time and get the whole team moving as one. We also seen times where we've hit the panic button and given sackfuls of penalties away. Perhaps Lance can do it, he's only just started his run at 6 - maybe when he's settled? I think Lomax will get it from #7 with some more experience.

Although it would be more than a little odd to join a club that finishes lower than the one you left. Even more odd if Huddersfield somehow manage to win the GF.

Admittedly, but I do believe that any coach can only stay at the same club so long before things get stale.
Brown has done a very good job for Hudds and will leave with much more tick than crosses. His reputation as a coach has improved imo, as I recall he stuttered in his first job at St G. He'll get a good pay packet from Saints for his contract and the chance to start in a better position than Hudds had him in when he joined.

The potential at Saints is there, he'll see that. Also, given the fairly miseraale last 18 months, any improvement will be greeting with glee from the supporters.

Hull are now 4th and by the time you reply they will probably be 5th They are a poor team that have had a lot of easy games, the highlights have been beating us when we were clueless and a draw vs Wire when they had only just got off the plane from Aus'. They will plummit just like Castleford did last year.

Bradford are even worse, Leeds are really in a bad way at the moment. A combination of dreadful weather and the treat of losing their jobs has spurred them on. They are also not likely to make the playoffs