I don't think anyone is trying to 'denigrate' Luke. He is a top class Super League player. The best half in the league. What more do you want?

Matty is at least the current England scrum half. To most Saints fans however, he will always be the guy who was surplus to your requirements. At least give him the credit he deserves that he has turned his career around and improved markedly as a player with Wigan.

Even The Roosters had difficulty defending Wigan's 'system' so I don't think it's as easy as you make out. If every team 'defended correctly' there'd be no tries would there?

Smith will always be that guy, yes. We had Eastmond, significantly the better player; however Saints didn't plan that time very well at all and it's took them 3 years to fix it. Even now, they have Hohaia as one of their top earners despite being little more than ordinary because of the lack of foresight Saints showed. Lot of money in play for Saints to work with when Hohaia leaves at the end of this coming season.

Regardless, Smith has never been anything but Joe Ordinary. He can run your plays and provide a semi-decent kicking game but under pressure, he ain't going to cut it. It's why in games ike the GF, when it was obvious to all that Saints were defending your system correctly, you couldn't offer anything remotely different. Smith can't do 'different', he doesn't have it in him,

The Roosters game was a preseason friendly for them. How do we honestly think the likes of Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Warrington would get on against them in Australia if we faced them mid-season ? They'd have to declare !

Fair enough points. I think that describing Matty as Joe Ordinary is a little unfair. He may very well be limited but a lot of people rate him highly enough to include him in the Dream Team and the England team.

Also Lance is after all a World Cup winner. Not a bad pedigree is it? That Saints bought him then didn't know where to play him is hardly his fault. A little more respect might be in order. But then that's none of my business. So I'll say no more.

Looks like SLS is here to stir it up.

It will be like the immovable object meeting the irresistable force when he and Saddened meet.

I don't think Smith has improved that much, more experienced maybe but skill wise no. I always liked him when at Saints but recognized his limited ability. He has become another of the fortunate players to gain honours whilst playing for the pies. There is a long history of players being selected for international duty just because they have signed for wigin. Sarginson is another who would hardly be known if he was still at London. I still remember Neil Cowie signing from Rochdale to wigin; just an average prop who became an international class player by a signature. My prediction for this term is that the pies will struggle.

Smith being in the England team or Dream Team is more an indictment of the state of British RL than anything else.

Hohaia, not disrespectful at all really. Saints signed him as a half back when they were desperate for a big name moving into their new ground. He isn't a half whatsoever but offers nice cover across a range of positions. Saints will be much, much stronger for having a proper 6 and 7 this year for the first time in donkey's.

It's been a while since he impressed me in the second row tbh. I think his best rugby was when he carried us in the halves and IMO walked our player of the year that season.

I'm not a big fan of Wilkin and think he will struggle as a forward next season as players get bigger and stronger every year and he just shrinks.

Williams might be quicker than Walsh when running but has he the speed of thought as Walsh ?

The latest installment from that group of ing idiots over the lump.

None of our players stand out but with Longy back our half back and back play should improve.

They're all ing mad. Convinced of it.

Didn't you say on the wigan board that Luke Walsh was a Journeyman ? but then Matty smith isn't just average?
For the record i don't think Matty is just average but you can't say that someone who was voted as one of the best palyers in the nrl is average but also claim Matty smith is awesome!

Wigan fans really are like the the lego men in the movie "everything is awesome!"

Going back to the OP.
Green, Dudson, James & Taylor have left Wigan.
A fee was received for Taylor the rest were OOC.
Of those arriving Patrick is on loan, Tautai was OOC, Greenwood returns from a loan at London and Mossop was released by the Eels and signed for Wigan.
Not all that much buying and selling really!

No one has misread or taken any of your comments out of context. You have completely slagged off quite a few of our team. Then you say there isn't much between the two teams. Well your players must be pretty awful as well then, or your trying to dig yourself out of a pretty big hole.
Wigan fans are the same as fans of any club in any sport. You big up your own players. Your certainly not shy of doing it yourself. Let's see how that TURKEY Tomkins goes this year shall we!
As for leaving themselves open to ridicule, I suggest anyone wanting a good laugh read your posts on this thread.

Taken out of context. If you'd care to read the thread, someone made the comment that the NRL and Super League were of a similar standard. i used the example of Luke Walsh to illustrate that in the NRL he didn't get near to rep standard (and listed all the half backs NSW had used in his time) and yet he is the best half back in Super League. I used the term 'journeyman' in NRL terms. Then someone pointed out that he came 7th in the Dally M one year, so I agreed that i was over egging it a bit.

Matty is a limited player who has improved no end at Wigan. He does his job well, so much so that he is the current England scrum half. They were very close to beating both NZ and Aus with him in the team, so he wasn't a disaster in the job. The England team looks the strongest we've had for over a decade.

I'm happy to discuss these things with you, but I'm not really interested in name calling. I'm not stupid and neither are you, so let's not bring this down to the level of "You said..." without at least trying understand the point being made. I'm sure you are capable of nuanced discussion.

Just to emphasize for those who are not - Luke Walsh is the best half back in Super League. In the NRL he was not in the top half dozen (except for one year) and came nowhere near to representing NSW or Australia. So if I say he is the best in Super League - then ergo - he is better than Matty Smith.