No it shouldn't be parallel.

Even dafter, the poster has used a BBC screen grab and drawn his own random line on it to "prove" his own deluded point, if he'd waited for a few seconds longer he'd have seen the BBC's own graphics and could have screen grabbed that one instead - mind, it didn't provide evidence for his delusion, so maybe not.

There is no specific reference in the rules in relation to kicks in general play and how you mark a player as being on-side or off-side in relation to this kick. However, if Mr Cummins does reply I think he will point you to Section 13, Rule 3 as being the general interpretation of off-side and on-side at a kick and that the rules remaining consistent on this rules for kicks. That of course states that players have to be behind the ball not the player to be on-side!

This has always being my understanding of what is considered on-side/off-side for any kick and is the key point.

I do think the rules could be a little clearer on this but I am sure, disappointing some Saints fans, it would talk about being behind the ball, not the being level or behind the player with the ball!

The 40/20 is a Red Herring, because as stated the rule is about the position of a player on the field and not about another players position in relation to the ball.

They are being consistent with the rules... but agree it could be clearer!

For all of those without a rule book the section concerns Penalty kicks

Position of Players
3. Players of the kicker’s team must be behind the ball
when it is kicked.
Players of the team opposing the kicker shall retire to
their own goal line or ten metres or more from the
mark towards their own goal line and shall not make
any attempt to interfere with or distract the attention
of the kicker.
They may advance after the ball has been kicked.

Looks like it is the only reference to a player and the position he has to be in reference to anything (in this case the ball) - if that is what refs take as their interpretation then so be it - I would have been less happy about this until you realise the rule before states - [iA player may take a penalty kick by punting, drop kicking, or place kicking the ball[/i so it could be stretched to include kicks in play.

Thanks for your assistance Armadillo - no such help did ever come from Cummins

No problems, you are welcome.

For your reference as well, being behind the ball at a kick also appears in Section 6, Rule 9 and states -

Players’ positions 9.

When a kick at goal is being taken following a try, the
opposing players shall stand outside the field of play.
Players of the kicker’s team must be behind the ball.
When a kick at goal is being taken from a penalty
kick, the opponents shall retire to their goal line or
not less than 10 metres from the mark. (See Section
13).

...and here in Section 8, Rule 2 -

The ball may be kicked in any manner and in any
direction and is immediately in play. Opposing players
shall retire ten metres from the 20m line and shall not
advance until the ball has been kicked. Defending
players shall not advance in front of the ball before it is
kicked. Any deliberate offence by either team shall incur
a penalty to be awarded at the centre of the 20m line.

But the Original Section 13, Rule 3 is the one that most closely applies.

Oh, and on Cummins I really do think he should make an effort to search out the more rational e-mails and answer them but I understand he very rarely does!

This is the best visual I've seen as posted by King Whino. The red Line is in proper perspective and this is the frame Bentham used to make his decision.

Smith was onside, according to the rules.

Whether he was onside or not, you cannot simply just draw a line parallel with the white line as the perspective changes.

If you continued that parallel line towards the try line, then you would see how incorrect it is.

That proves how little you know about perspective then! I am really tempted to drop that frame into Autocad and draw a perspective grid on the whole picture.

Can you tell my where you think the rail camera is in relation to the lines on the pitch? I think I can get it to within a metre or so?

Surprisingly its Hughes that it photo shopped to push Smith offside, check iplayer or the SL site.
IMO it’s that close its impossible to say whether he was onside or offside, Pryce is in the way on all camera angles to see clearly, it does look like smiths planted foot could be behind the ball (although I don’t know if that is the correct rule).

The only problem I have is the people who are calling it a ridiculous decision and game changing, it wasn’t ridiculous, it was a very tight call that went the attacking team’s way and unless Saints had a game plan of keeping Leeds within 1 score until the 73rd minute then unleashing all hell it’s still 12-10 to Leeds.

The decision for me was far less contentious than the Long tackle in the semi against Wigan.

Does not look too far out to me at all!



I have found the vanishing point using the 10m and Try lines and then drawn a vertical line, which of course indicates the location of the camera relative to the pitch, so roughly between the 3m and 4m line for me. The other line is as best as I can do on the front of Smith's foot to the vanishing point.

So the rail camera is around 5m+ in front of the play and looking back at an angle at the point Bentham used as his reference for the decision!

Looks really tight to me, and difficult to see the ball because of Pryce!

In that still Pryce is blocking the ball, but on TV the position of the ball was always clear.



But the distance between the line on the screen and the *true* line will be so small as to make no difference. And any difference would be in Smith's favour anyway.

Excellent work

and the ball was hidden behind Pryce`s right leg (nearest the try line) as was seen on the Sky camera from the reverse angle.

so it is a very fine call indeed and with benefit to the attacking side was the right decision. Some you win some you lose. Just ask Wigan in the Semi-Final

Sky technicians? you mean the floating 6 foot wide spinning rubber rings?

It's funny how Stevo gets nothing but stick for his opinion untill it suits somebody.