No way wello would try to undermine Brown. He did with Royce but not with Brown.

Will the real old guard please stand up

Nor will Cunningham, who on every occasion I've heard has been very complimentary about brown (which is why as a rumour it's codswallop, but hey, anything to try and point the finger away from the real issues)

For all the we shouldn't employ ex players by some, bringing back Apollo would be massive for us imo.

As a player ?

Magic weekend 2008: St Helens 57 Wigan 16. Yet 2 seasons later 11 of these players won a grand final. The difference: Michael Maguire. Silly to write off so many of your players.

Heard all this before mate.

We've all been in them jobs were you just turn up, crack on and go home. You don't need any real passion or enthusiasm for it, you just turn up, apply a basic skill set an go through the motions because at the end of the day, no matter what effort you put in, your wage at the end of the month is still the same.

I think there's an handful of people at the club who also have that same attitude as above. You need all 17 going out there scrapping for the shirt, however we've clearly got a few passengers. Wane singled out Josh Charnley for his attitude & contribution earlier in the season and dropped him. I don't think Brown's got it in him to do the same. That really worries me.

The other telling statement for me was his commentary on how Hudds forwards would be looking forward to facing us. I'm reading it that NB also sees what we see in that we are a bunch of soft ar$es up front - that's clearly the issue he was alluding to with Wigan for me and again was the difference yesterday.

At least he sees what we see but the question is WHY are we like that?

It's very helpful that the person responsible for the team's overall performance is stating the bleeding obvious. He was just passing the buck, as he usually does.

I don't think he was passing the buck. It sounded to me like he was publicly questioning the application of his forwards (despite saying that he wasn't going to do so) and challenging them to produce something worthy of the shirt. Surely that's part of his job. Whether it will work is another matter.

I think it needed to be said. Nobody likes being called soft by their coach on tv. We'll get a reaction one way or the other - the players will take it on board or the coach will prove unable to motivate them. Either way will lead to change.

Agree. For all his faults he's not a stupid guy.