Not answering the second bit!!

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Yes we have done loads of chicken wings, ninjas, cannonballs and crushers!

So? That doesn't make it attractive to watch or in fact necessary. Warrington have the best defence in the league this season and they don't slow down the PTB in the way Wigan can do. Teams don't have to do that to have a good defence.


Well, it didn't work against Warrington and it didn't work against us on Sunday. Coaches have gotten wise to it. Hopefully that includes the Dragons' coach!


Nope. I think Wire have the best balance. And us, based on our game on Sunday.

Wigan have got the trophies inthe cabinet, and they've done it with a much more modest squad of players than Wire have running out for them. It obviously works.

Hopefully coaches have got the measure of it, but I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

It's all about perspective.

Leeds have been poor most of the season so their recent performances are viewed in that context.

Were they champions or a top 2 team they'd be viewed in the context of a team coming back into form. The thing is, although leeds have had a couple of iffy seasons consistency wise, they still have the spine that won 3 titles on the trot so you can't really write the current mob off, however unlikely.

Leeds have a bad record against the top teams this year. But you have to remember defeats against warrington and saints came at a time when they simply weren't respecting the ball and defence was shoddy. Since these issue have been corrected and they've pushed wigan damned close twice.

Again, I say ... so? We had trophies in the cabinet under Millward, but he didn't use that style of defence, nor did McRae or Anderson. Anderson of course introduced us to the concept of defence and so we weren't as flighty as under Millward but we didn't play to slow the PTB like Wigan aim to do. There are other, equally if not more so effective means of defence and since Warrington have the best defence in the league this season it is logical to assume theirs is actually the most effective.

unfortunately that "spine" is now old and well past it. Senior and Peacock and Webb are 2/3 seasons past their best and Burrow/maguire/sinfield just havnt been able to recreate they're old form

So, I'm saying its worked for them. Its been a major factors in winning trophies and being the best team in the competition. If a coach finds something that works, he's going to use it.
Yes, but do you reckon Millward could've won the league with the Squad wigan did?

Except they aren't the best team in the comp. Warrington is.

And it still spoils RL as a spectacle.

And I can't now remember what the original point of this exchange was!

I agree with the middle bit. My point is that its down to the officials, and the guidance they receive from above to keep that side of things in check accross the sport as a whole.
Wigan are only playing the game as they're allowed by the officials. The tactics they've employed since McGuire arrived made a half decent bunch of players into the best team in the competition.

We were just talking about good defence, but how the freedom players have allow the Wigan tactic to dominate the specticle.
As solid as we were on sunday in terms of making tackles when we had to, Wigan still made yards with every set easier than you'd think. That probably kept them as close as they were. If we'd have controlled the ruck as they can, we'd have won by 30 points.

I thought you are a teacher? Warrington is? Warrington are!

Warrington maybe the best but we can still be champions

Actually, at the risk of appearing pedantic ( ) "is" is strictly correct. Warrington in this sense refers to a team (singular) so the use of "is" rather than "are", from a purely grammatical position is the appropriate usage. Of course when referring to teams the common usage is the plural as in "Wigan were garbage on Sunday" rather than "Leeds is a fading force".

Where SaintsFan did go wrong is using the singular and plural terms in consecutive, related sentences.

Is it Australia or USA where teams are usually referred to in the singular?

Anyway, English lesson over.

That's been our style pretty much all season, to a greater or lesser extent. I can only remember one match - and I can't remember which one it was now - when we stood out by pushing up in defence. We seem to hang back and rely more on scrambling. If that doesn't knacker us then so be it. So long as we work hard and are effective then that's what counts. Ideally we wouldn't have conceded that try before halftime on Sunday but we didn't slide, Makinson was drawn in and Wello had a brainfart. Hopefully we will learn from that and from the other bits and pieces that weren't quite there. However, I am glad we haven't gone down Wigan's route as it means that when things do click for us, we are a good side to watch.

On the attacking side, it was encouraging to see how Royce has been able to build in more sophisticated plays and better lines since he has had a relatively stable team to train. He also said that although Gaskell had only played ten minutes in a few matches he has been training with Lomax and Pryce in the halves, so he has kept up to speed with what Royce is trying to achieve. I think that was obvious on Sunday.

Agreed, line speed has never been great all season. Not missing tackles is the main thing, but giving up field position too easy will be a thorn in our side as the play offs get tougher.