But in comparison to previous years it was a good turn out.

Attendances are well up on KR and that is all with poorer product on show.
Not to mention revenue per ticket must be higher.

What is going on with our play the ball??? It's so slow and lumbering, and it's been going on for what feels like a few years now. We used to be all about the ruck speed, winning penalties against teams because they held us down, or couldn't get square, or Cunningham or Roby would make 10 yards from dummy half.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but I think we suffer a lot from having ineffectual and/or small wingers. If you have wingers who can get their upper body through the tackle and dictate the speed of the play the ball on tackle one then you're probably going to get quick rucks for the rest of the set, as it's a snowball effect. If, however, your winger gets dumped on his backside on tackle one (which is what happens every time for us) then you're up against it from the start. People used to dish out some stick to Meli and Gardner, but when we had those two on the wings we got our sets off to a good start.

That doesn't explain how bad we are at controlling the ruck speed in defence, though. There were occasions at the weekend where we actually made dominant tackles but the tackler just got straight up as soon as the 'held' call came from the ref. Whether we like it or not, controlling the speed of the ruck is central to the modern game, and we look completely unpracticed at it.

Houghton has played the full 80 for years, but has suffered from not having the best pack around him.

People recogise his stamina, ridiculous tackling performance and darting runs, but have lamented his seeming inability to take us to the next level regarding organisation, quick play the balls, and game management.

This year, however, is Danny's best ever. He's stepping up to the mark in all those areas described above, and we're winning matches. Why? Has Houghton suddenly learned in 3 months that which he hadn't in the previous 8 years? Of course not.

The simple reason is that he is playing in probably the best pack in the competition this year and is finally able to demonstrate his full potential. We are now seeing his full range of skills which were there all along.

The opposite has happened to Roby this season. He hasn't suddenly become a 'bad player', he is merely suffering from the constraints placed upon him by being amongst a pack that isn't firing. He's having to compensate by doing more donkey work which obviously is going to tire and stunt him. He looks like Danny has for the last few seasons. Solid, good, but not quite there.

Look to the pack for answers, not the 80 minutes. Danny is proving exceptional over 80 minutes every game this season.

I've been banging on about those first carries being so important to the set for years. People was heaping praise on Quinlan, SMD and Makinson for years when they are partly to blame for our sets coming off our line after a kick. That first carrie you need to win contact and win te ptb but those 3 and now Owens are dead on contact which results in the other team slowing the ptb and basically resulting in us making no yardage in that set.

Your correct in that ade and Meli would win contact and win the ptb if they caught it in first place but we now only have swifty who can do this.

Watching game as a Leeds fan agree with this. Without Roby though your pack would be in real bother. Your defence is dodgy but is a step up from Leeds this season. Happy for you to send us Roby anytime you have had enough of him. Still a great player for my money.

The biggest game of the season for us (lets face it: we have never been this far away from winning the grand final) and we put our worst performance in. Questions have to be asked.

Those questioning Roby are insane. Honestly, what do you expect him to do? He's good, but he's not THAT good

Insane? I don't see how really. He's been a legend for us over the years and his performances have been perhaps amongst the most consistent of any of our elite players over the decades. But time waits for no man and a man flogged irresponsibly since Cunningham retired will obviously feel the effects of that. It is without question that Roby is no longer the player he once was. He's not hitting as hard in defense, he's not making as many runs and he's not as dynamic or dangerous when making them now. Sure, he's having to struggle extra hard because we have such a beaten pack, but that's not the only reason his performances are not what they were. I'm not saying he's a bad player, far from it. He's class and will continue to be next season as well no doubt. But he's not the top hooker in Super League any more. He's not even the best British hooker anymore. He's not even in the top 3 anymore. This is another area Saints are massively failing on, he needs to be replaced now, not in two years. Signing a 32 year old Kiwi who plays less than Gary Wheeler isn't the answer either.

Probably not the top world hooker but easily in the top.2 in SL.

I made this point on another thread regarding Roby. I have the utmost respect for him and what he does for the team, but should your clubs marquee player really be someone who makes 40+ tackles per game and who's impact is so heavily reliant on the performance of his 5 other forwards? Surely a marquee should be a match winner? Someone who can turn a game on his own? As much as Roby is quality, im not sure he would fall into that category.

Perhaps KC could make it his next project and put Turner there?