Do people want the midget Quinlan kept on next year ?

same old excuses from same people.

We've got a full complimant of props, we have not got one single prop missing. We have all three centres fit plus our back up in dawson. We even dropped one centre in Jordan Turner. We have had both halves back for past 5 weeks. We now have tommy back so both first choice wingers playing. Only Vea missing from Backrow but superstar greenwood and the Lms in there so pretty well covered.

We have a virtual full line up and settled team.

No excuses! The players, the coaching staff are the ones to blame, not injuries or any other excuse these posters can invent.

There's a number of issues at the minute for me.

Walsh has not come back the same player he was prior to the injury, he's out of form and isn't directing the side around.

Burns is not the player that was described when we signed him (others will probably say 'I told you so'), but whilst he appears indestructible, he's next to useless in directing the team around (and to think some on here wanted him to be captain at the beginning of the season because he shouted at Vea in a scrum). He's been a poor signing so far.

Wilkin is injured, it's not a coincidence that we've fallen to bits during the period he's been missing. He's the only other player, bar Walsh, that can effectively direct the team around the park.

Confidence looks shot, especially in defence. Players are second guessing themselves, hesitating, trying too hard, etc. all over the park and it's leading to easy tries being conceded.

The first three things Cunningham can do little about, I'm one of those that doesn't like kids being chucked into weakened sides unless it's necessary, but the last one, the confidence is his (and the coaching staff) job to change. It's not working at the moment, and changes need to be made, but I don't think that's necessarily him being sacked. He needs to learn from this experience.

Next Year!!, I wouldn't want him in the next game. Swifty was playing full back,wing and prop forward last night whilst Quinlan was tackling an "invisible man" and not interested in a decent kick return. We don't have a decent offloading game now, so Quinlan is very much negated and a passenger who can catch a high ball with nothing to offer after that.

I couldn't care less whether you think it's an excuse or not. Right now the truth is that we have one functioning halfback. And he's injured.

How we have arrived at this position is an entirely different question. But it doesn't make it any less true.

And if teams could play successfully without halfbacks for any length of time - there'd be no need for halfbacks.

He's definitely more of a dry-pitch player. Maybe we could get more out of him in the halves (which wouldn't be difficult) - but that leaves us needing someone else to hold down the full-back spot.

At the start of the year (when Saints were playing very well) I did wonder whether we'd set the balance of backs-versus-forwards promoted into the first team correctly. At the time it looked like we had plenty of big, powerful forwards but very little in terms of speed, power or guile in the backs. With hindsight we really should have paid more attention to this shortfall.

No. I also think we need to be hardnosed and get rid of McDonnell. Wasting 2 spots and precious salary on two average FB's.

I noticed that too. There was a period in the game where Hudds threw up 3 or 4 bombs in quick succession and Swift dealt with everyone. Quinlan was nowhere to be seen.

I agree that Quinlan should not be offered a contract. I think McDonnell, assuming he recovers fully from his achilles rupture, is a useful player to have around, though. He offers solid backup at full back and can compete for positions across the backline.

Shouldn't this year's fiasco with Walsh teach us something about whether or not it's a good idea to start a new season with key players under an injury cloud?

Quinlan is awful. He's so average and bar a couple of breaks (albeit one match winner vs Warrington) he's been bang average. I'd rather have Dawson on the wing with swift at full back I think...

I like McDonnell, he's a useful player. That break against Salford was incredible. He's just not going to be the same player after an Achilles injury though. It sounds harsh but we need to pay himand Walsh off and send them back to Australia along with Quinlan.

If we are going to pay off both Walsh & McDonnell - we should pay off Lomax, too.

If there's one lesson we need to take from this season it is that long-term injuries require a lot more time to get over than the stated recovery period - if at all.

Even if Lomax is fit for the first game of next year - it'll probably take him half the season to return to something like his best form (if that is even possible).

If that's the best we can come up with Burns, then we're screwed.

I've just looked at Burns stats for this season and despite playing alot more games than Walsh he has scored less tries, less try assists and less clean breaks and this is despite Walsh being absolutely woeful.

Our half backs are clueless and I'd argue that Burns has been one of the worst half back signings we've made in my time watching this club since the early 90's. He is a waste of space and quite frankly the pair of them need dropping. We were better off when Jordan Turner stepped in at half back for the 2nd half yesterday which tells us exactly how bad the pair of them have been. The fact KC has stuck with them gives me very little confidence in his ability to coach us either.

Jon Wilkin's return can't come soon enough.

Look, I'm not exactly jumping over the moon about Burns, either. But unless we are going to cut the guy loose (expensive) we're just going to have to learn to live with his limitations.

Right now he's fit. Which is more than we can say about Walsh. And we know that Burns & Wilkin can function as an effective partnership. Indeed, Saints' best form was with that pairing.

Sans any other suggestions I think we should go with those two and take Walsh out of the firing line. Who knows - maybe a few weeks away from the pressure will be the spur he needs. I bloody hope so.