I think this is a well argued and articulate post. Now don't you feel better for not slagging anyone off and making the effort to be reasoned?

You obviously know a lot about the game and study it closely but until now you have rather hidden it.

I know you don't like us much but not all Wigan fans fall into the ridiculous category just as Saints fans are not all paragons of reasoning.

i think you may just be made to eat some of your words and there will be many on here who will love that, even amongst your own fans. But not me. Keep posting. Just make it reasonable

Ourselves and Wigan are quite evenly matched, but I do think we have the edge. This is mainly because of our half backs. We have two experienced talented backs who have played with each other before. Wigan will have a young player at 6 and Smith at 7. Smith is solid, but doesn't have the ability of a player like Walsh, who can drag you out of a huge hole and lead you to victory.

In terms of speed, Wigan probably have the edge. From what I've seen Charnley is the fastest in the competition and his try scoring rate is second to none. We have improved in recent years though from having a slow and old backline, to a young and fast backline. I don't think it's a coincidence that we've improved since.

Both packs are great, probably the best two in the competition. I think we are the best in terms of ability, but Wigan's are the best in terms of attitude. Our packs performance can fluctuate hugely. For example, LMS and Masoe can be devastating or anonymous, there's no real middle ground. Wigan seem more consistent than us in this area.

It will probably be us and Wigan fighting it out for trophies this year again. And with both trophies being decided in finals, picking a winner is almost impossible. Both sides can bear each other. For us to beat Wigan, our pack needs to man up again. We did last June and in the Grand Final and won both times.

I agree with other comments about Catalans. The signings of Tonga, Casty and particularly Carney transform the team. I can see them making the top 4. Their home form is never a concern, it's just the away form that needs improvement, and I think they will. I think Warrington will improve too. With Clarke coming in and if they can find a consistent 6 and 7, they'll threaten too. This is the year Leeds will fall off IMO. The side is ageing hugely and a 6th place finish wouldn't surprise me.

Burns and Walsh were halfback partners for three years at Penrith and they're also good mates off the pitch. They complement each other well because Walsh is the organiser and Burns the line breaker. That's how they both like it. So they will go well, assuming Walsh has the confidence and fitness to play again following his injury.

Burns is an improvement by the very fact he is a halfback. Whether he is a good or average halfback will make little difference as a side we are much improved with 2 halfbacks in the team.

It's been many years to get to the stage that most teams take for granted.

Quote: SaintsFan "Burns and Walsh were halfback partners for three years at Penrith and they're also good mates off the pitch. They complement each other well because Walsh is the organiser and Burns the line breaker. That's how they both like it. So they will go well, assuming Walsh has the confidence and fitness to play again following his injury.'" Yes, you are right. Though after a promising start at the Panthers when they came second in 2010 they came 12th and a disastrous 15th in 2011&2012. The NRL review makes interesting reading especially the bit about being the worst kicking team in the competition. www.nrl.com/season-review-penrit ... fault.aspx Burns was dropped in his final season and released to join Hull KR where he struggled in the first season. However there is no doubt that he played well last season and earned his three year contract with Saints at this late stage of his career. My point was that the argument that Saints have a better stand off than Wigan can't be taken as read. It may turn out to be correct. Burns is the epitome of 'journeyman' whereas Williams and Hampshire have their whole careers ahead of them and could achieve anything in the game. No disrespect, because he is clearly good enough for Super League but Burns has achieved nothing.

Quote: SaintsFan "Burns and Walsh were halfback partners for three years at Penrith and they're also good mates off the pitch. They complement each other well because Walsh is the organiser and Burns the line breaker. That's how they both like it. So they will go well, assuming Walsh has the confidence and fitness to play again following his injury.'" Yes, you are right. Though after a promising start at the Panthers when they came second in 2010 they came 12th and a disastrous 15th in 2011&2012. The NRL review makes interesting reading especially the bit about being the worst kicking team in the competition. www.nrl.com/season-review-penrit ... fault.aspx Burns was dropped in his final season and released to join Hull KR where he struggled in the first season. However there is no doubt that he played well last season and earned his three year contract with Saints at this late stage of his career. My point was that the argument that Saints have a better stand off than Wigan can't be taken as read. It may turn out to be correct. Burns is the epitome of 'journeyman' whereas Williams and Hampshire have their whole careers ahead of them and could achieve anything in the game. No disrespect, because he is clearly good enough for Super League but Burns has achieved nothing.

I don't think anyone is trying to 'denigrate' Luke. He is a top class Super League player. The best half in the league. What more do you want?

Matty is at least the current England scrum half. To most Saints fans however, he will always be the guy who was surplus to your requirements. At least give him the credit he deserves that he has turned his career around and improved markedly as a player with Wigan.

Even The Roosters had difficulty defending Wigan's 'system' so I don't think it's as easy as you make out. If every team 'defended correctly' there'd be no tries would there?

Smith will always be that guy, yes. We had Eastmond, significantly the better player; however Saints didn't plan that time very well at all and it's took them 3 years to fix it. Even now, they have Hohaia as one of their top earners despite being little more than ordinary because of the lack of foresight Saints showed. Lot of money in play for Saints to work with when Hohaia leaves at the end of this coming season.

Regardless, Smith has never been anything but Joe Ordinary. He can run your plays and provide a semi-decent kicking game but under pressure, he ain't going to cut it. It's why in games ike the GF, when it was obvious to all that Saints were defending your system correctly, you couldn't offer anything remotely different. Smith can't do 'different', he doesn't have it in him,

The Roosters game was a preseason friendly for them. How do we honestly think the likes of Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Warrington would get on against them in Australia if we faced them mid-season ? They'd have to declare !

Fair enough points. I think that describing Matty as Joe Ordinary is a little unfair. He may very well be limited but a lot of people rate him highly enough to include him in the Dream Team and the England team.

Also Lance is after all a World Cup winner. Not a bad pedigree is it? That Saints bought him then didn't know where to play him is hardly his fault. A little more respect might be in order. But then that's none of my business. So I'll say no more.

Looks like SLS is here to stir it up.

It will be like the immovable object meeting the irresistable force when he and Saddened meet.

I don't think Smith has improved that much, more experienced maybe but skill wise no. I always liked him when at Saints but recognized his limited ability. He has become another of the fortunate players to gain honours whilst playing for the pies. There is a long history of players being selected for international duty just because they have signed for wigin. Sarginson is another who would hardly be known if he was still at London. I still remember Neil Cowie signing from Rochdale to wigin; just an average prop who became an international class player by a signature. My prediction for this term is that the pies will struggle.

Smith being in the England team or Dream Team is more an indictment of the state of British RL than anything else.

Hohaia, not disrespectful at all really. Saints signed him as a half back when they were desperate for a big name moving into their new ground. He isn't a half whatsoever but offers nice cover across a range of positions. Saints will be much, much stronger for having a proper 6 and 7 this year for the first time in donkey's.

It's been a while since he impressed me in the second row tbh. I think his best rugby was when he carried us in the halves and IMO walked our player of the year that season.

I'm not a big fan of Wilkin and think he will struggle as a forward next season as players get bigger and stronger every year and he just shrinks.

Williams might be quicker than Walsh when running but has he the speed of thought as Walsh ?

The latest installment from that group of ing idiots over the lump.

None of our players stand out but with Longy back our half back and back play should improve.

They're all ing mad. Convinced of it.