Just to bring you up to speed, Saints are on 18, Leeds have just made 12.

Currently Superleague history is 1996 to 2012 not from 2007, unless you have been watching for only the last 5 years, if this is your personal timeline then you are correct.

In the Super League era Saints are the most successful team and it's an honour we should be very proud of. We've managed to sustain a period of longevity and still remain near the top despite losing some great players in the last 5 years.

But Leeds have won 5 Grand Finals in 6 years. FIVE in SIX years! The Grand Final is ultimate game, unlike the CC you have to beat your strongest rivals to win the competition and what they have done is unprecedented in this modern era.

I can't help but agree.

To reach the grand final 5 times in 6 years is an achievment in its self, to win every one of them is outrageous.

I would agree with this being fair and balanced point of view.

I think everyone it talking at cross purposes. Some are talking about club records, others are talking about this years players, others like me are looking at the team as a cohort of players or a generation of players. So we can all quote the number of trophies won, but they are not all won by the same generation of players, even if they are won by the same club.

In terms of Leeds, which generation of players are you talking about? After all, they had Brent Webb as their fullback when they beat us the first three times but I don't think he's played in either of their latest two wins.

The only recurring theme to Leeds in their grand final successes are Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire, Peacock, JJB and the thug. I think most of the others, if not all of them, have changed since 2007.

Like I say, you can't really talk about a team when you talk about 'the best' unless you refer to a particular season as teams are changing all the time.

Absolute rubbish. Leeds are a great TEAM
You have failed to mention Ablett, Leuluai and Kirke who also played in the 2007 final. So that's more than half the team who have stayed together.
Five of them were in the 2004 Grand Final

I think there are to many ambiguous variables to answer your original question. You always need something to measure it against, be it records, trophy's etc. There is also a time period, for example Saints had the same cohort team for 2 years which were considered unbeatable where as Leeds over the last 4 seasons have been average in the regular season and outside the top 3, failed in all the challenge cups, but considered unbeatable in the super league playoffs. So would you consider a team who are successful in one variable a great team.

Which is a fair point. I still think when people look back and write RL history. This period between 2004 - 2012 will be seen as a period of dominance by Leeds. Even withstanding the fact that we won the league, when they won the GF. And when they look at the great players of this era between those years we will look more like bridesmaids to Leeds. It's a bit like the start of the SL era, some see it as a Bradford dominated era, were as I thought we had more than our fair share of dominance during that period.

I still think our best team included the likes of Wellens, Martyn, Long, Cunningham, Scully and Joynty. They where the key players in that cohort for me. Similar to how Sinfield, Buderas, Burrows, Maguire, peacock and webb (to an extent before this year) are the brains trust for Leeds.

Saints also had other long standing players during that era as do Leeds, but I would say that these were the players that made Saints the dominate force at that time.

2004 - leeds
2005 - bradford
2006 - saints
2007 - leeds
2008 - leeds
2009 - leeds
2010 - wigan
2011 - leeds
2012 - leeds

That's how the record books of that period look, only 3 times from that period of 9 seasons were leeds not champions.

Sport can be very selective though and you could take any certain period in super league to show that saints, or bradford have been dominant at one stage or another. Wigan....not so much.

Be careful! You will be standing in the corner with a big hat on

But they are just the key players; they aren't the team.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Which ever way people want to try and dress it up, what Leeds have done in the last 8 years outshines any other club, certainly since I've been watching. The fact they've managed to do it a in a salary capped game makes it all the more remarkable.

Denying this fact will just give them more cause to gloat.

Tosh.

Listen. Who cares anyway. It'll soon be next season and we'll have Brown instilling steeliness in our defence so we can walk it all the way to collecting the trophy.