The point I'm making, Maybe saints don't think his contract demand matched his ability and you've got to respect that.

No way are we spending to the cap.

we keep saying this, but we made a cup semi and the grand final so our squad cant be that bad

We are not a bad side but with a centre, halfback and prop we could be a great side.

IMO we are just three quality players off being the wining team again. If wheeler and hohaia fill two of them roles then we will be a better side.

Time will tell.

indeed, i see wheeler as a centre and lance can fill a number of roles too, good times ahead

I wonder how many games we will get out of Wheeler next season? 5 ,10?

So, by your rationale, I should respect Saints' decision to re-sign Meli (twice) based on his abilities - despite the fact that his initial extension was based on woeful form?

At times I feel Saints are like the guy out of Memento with no short-term memory - scribbling down notes in a desperate attempt to keep track of the past. When will it sink in that Meli is the worst player in the history of Grand Finals? The guy's name should be synonymous with blundering error. A tragi-comic character wheeled out every year for fans to laugh at.

The fact that so many fans rush to defend him speaks volumes about the pernicious culture of accepting failure which has taken root at the club. It is very possible that the players themselves have absorbed some of the effects turning each new Grand Final defeat into a self-fulfilling prophecy.



Well, it's their words. Not mine.

I agree with this totally. After last year's GF failure, I never wanted to see Meli in a GF side again. But not only was he there, he ended up on the wing. Meli is a disaster and until we remove him we will not win a Grand Final.

I quite like Flannery and Meli. Meli has been one of the best Centres in the league this year and Flannery while he's somewhat of a disappointment considering he's a SOO player is solid in defence, drives forward well and has good speed for a forward.

I'd like to see next year:

Lomax
Makinson
Shenton
Meli
Foster
Wheeler
Hohaia
Perry
Roby
LMS
Flanagan
Soliola
Wilkin

Flannery
Puletua
Clough
Laffranchi

The saints 17 that in the last month has twice beaten Wigan and come pretty close to winning the GF will pretty much be here at the start of next season, minus Graham who admittedly is a huge loss and possibly Moore, who is less of a loss. We can discount pryce and eastmond because their contribution this season has benn minimal, and fringe players like ashurst and Armstrong will be replaced by new kids. So adding to what is already a competitive team we will have perry, laffranchi, Flanagan, hohaia, magennis, flannery, gardner and hopefully a fit wheeler. They are all first team super league standard players who will give us a strong squad before we add new kids like ashe who are likely to be the next off our production line. Some people live in cloud cuckoo land if they think we have a crap squad or that we are going to go out and splash the cash on big money players. Saints have a formula that has made us successful for years now, this isn't the time to turn into hull or Bradford and throw all that away

I'm not off my nut bewareofshadows - just put a few things out there to stir up a debate -job done

I know you can't do people on pay as you play - just frustrated at the amount of Aussies who suffer 1st season syndrome. I fear we will get the same with Hohia. I just would be really careful of fuutre contract offers and give the club some more get out room if things don't work out. Graham's loss could be covered - IF Perry/Laffranchi do the games we need them to.

Re FLanno/Meli-Gardener -this is probably where I mean ruthless. You need to get rid of people just before they go over the other side. We got it just about right with Long, where may be a year early with Gilly but with Meli/Gardener/Flanno w ehave got it wrong. There must be talent out there - Carmont/Hoffman/Youngquest/O'Donnell would have all been better bets. A better winger than Gardener - Fox, Halley, Youngquest?

This is where we must be ruthless. We have been that way with Armstrong correctly. Need to do it with older players. No room for sentiment.

We have no quota space available! Releasing meli or flannery wouldn't create quota space. Stop coming up with solutions that are non starters

The most obvious example of Saints lack of ruthlessness is the tragic farce that is now the fullback position. We have known about Wellens' limitations for six or seven years and for the past five teams have been increasingly exploiting them for fun. For the last two seasons he's been a millstone around our neck. The game has changed so much since he first took the jersey. Back then you'd be looking at your centres and halves to be the focal point of the attack. Now the game is very much geared to quick fullbacks with good ball skills who can inject themselves into defensive weak spots.

No team hell-bent on winning would allow someone an unchallenged role for ten years. Which is effectively what Paul Wellens has been allowed. I find it staggering that not only have we never brought in a second option - we've shown almost no interest in grooming one from the academy.

I suppose another good example would be the reckless disregard we have shown toward the kicking discipline over the years. Granted, we now have Foster who seems an excellent field goal kicker. But before him I recall us entering a season with PAUL WELLENS as back-up to a shot Long. Long himself was not up to standard. His short game was useful but his leg strength meant he could barely punt the ball thirty meters. This resulted in us going through seasons where we were beginning each set ten yards further back than we should expect. I mean, this kind of stuff is inexcusable. Yet fans continue to do so. Baffling.

I am absolutely suggesting that as an incontrovertible 100% fact, yes. They wouldn't have been resigned otherwise. And we couldn't have signed any foreigners to replace any of them due to quota restrictions... If you can name realistic replacements we could have afforded on the quota/cap then you have a legitimate argument - otherwise frustratedly spouting abuse at players who are as good in their position as most other players in the league and who would easily make most other 17s in the league just doesn't cut it. I'd love to find a Newlove, Sullivan and Joynt to replace the 3 of them as they are all pale shadows of the quality of player we had in Saints' shirts 10/15 years ago, but the sad fact is that the average standard of SL player is in terminal decline and all 3 are now as good (in fact significantly better) than anyone else available. Deal with and move on matey.

This is it. We have no idea what money each player is pulling down. So saying Flannery is not worth it. How do we know. He is now a back up second rower. He will not even be a first choice sub next year. I dont know many clubs who can boast a forward of Flannerys quality outside the top 17.Meli is a gamble I would say until the last 20 minutes of thisyear he was a gamble that was paying off.

If anything Leeds reckonised his weakness on the wing royce did not. With hindsight foster should have been left with foster and Wheeler should have moved over to the other centre and drop lomax to fb.

But back on point

Next years line up for me.

Lomax
Makinson
Shenton
Wheeler
Foster

Lance
Gaskell

Perry
Roby
TP
Sia
Wilkin
Laffranchi

Clough
LMS
Megenis
Flanaghan

Wellens
Dixon
Flannery
Meli

If we need a back on the bench Wellens would be it for mine. Can cover all positions and do a stint in the back row.

No problem having a club captain. As and on pitch captain I think Wilkin or maybe an assuie like Lafranchi or Lance. Some one who will not hold their fire and be able to control a side. Some one who can close out a big game and make decisions without looking to the stand.

We will have strength in depth and 5props with Lafranchi offering a sixth and Sia a seventh. WithDixon and flannery and Flanaghan offering a good back rowers role.

Perhaps the fact that you've been the nearly men of SL for a while know has cost you the club being ruthless. The fact that your still challenging highly on all fronts is the reason why these tough decisions haven't been made.

Had Saints gone through a real lean patch, where you didn't challenge for honors, or maybe even struggled to make the top. The tough decisions would have been made IMO. But it's because your in between those two scenario's. Your challenging for titles but not winning them, yet your not struggling what so ever to make the top 4. Tough decisions tend to be made in tough times, something Saints aren't really going through. Maybe you need to hit more rock bottom before theses tough decisions are forced upon those in charge.