FORUMS > St. Helens > Fantastic performance |
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| Quote: Ian Roberts Closet "Why Tomkins is poop!
Has stated Leeds have played at a far less intense level and has I have siad Wigan have managed to turn potential points avanlanges into tight games with inablity to kill teams off! '"
That's all well and good but Leeds haven't managed to perform at a level capable of beating the top three. Even in the cup final, where some Wigoon fans have said they didn't play particularly well in, it still wasn't good enough. What makes you think that Leeds can throw off a season of mediocrity like it was a summer duvet cover on a hot morning? A couple of wins against poorly performing or uninterested sides doesn't suddenly mean you're a force that's going to storm the barricades of Old Trafford. Hull KR beat Saints and Catalans whilst Leeds beat Wakefield, Huddersfield and Hull. I don't think anybody was coming out and saying Hull KR were dark horses for the final so why bother hyping up Leeds so much.
Leeds have quality players no doubt but let's not apportion the same fear and respect to them as the champions because the latter has earned it whilst the former has squandered and lost it this year.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "Everybody wants to see a great defence. What we don't want to see is defence artificially elongating the PTB. That ruins rugby league as a spectacle. What Wire now have and what Saints showed on Sunday was sound defence without that deliberate slowing down of the PTB.'" But, Wigan did win the league with it last year. I don't blame them. Its a tactic that works and doesn't affect their go forward. Its the officials that let the precedent start under instructions from above. That obviously doesn't excuse chicken wings, ninjas, cannonballs and crushers, though.
We don't want super fast rucks that lead to heads down scoot, scoot, scooting, but we don't want 5 minutes betweens plays either.
Ganson seemed to be on a mission in the Wire game to keep a quick PTB which crucified Hudds. Hopefully he'll get the Wigan Cats game aswell and do the same - bwhahaha.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "No, and that's one reason why the game was attractive to watch.'"
Not answering the second bit!!
Quote: SaintsFan "
Blah Blah Blah.'" ]
Yes we have done loads of chicken wings, ninjas, cannonballs and crushers!
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "But, Wigan did win the league with it last year.'"
So? That doesn't make it attractive to watch or in fact necessary. Warrington have the best defence in the league this season and they don't slow down the PTB in the way Wigan can do. Teams don't have to do that to have a good defence.
Quote: Offside Monkey "I don't blame them. Its a tactic that works and doesn't affect their go forward. '"
Well, it didn't work against Warrington and it didn't work against us on Sunday. Coaches have gotten wise to it. Hopefully that includes the Dragons' coach!
Quote: Offside Monkey "We don't want super fast rucks that lead to heads down scoot, scoot, scooting, but we don't want 5 minutes betweens plays either.'"
Nope. I think Wire have the best balance. And us, based on our game on Sunday.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "So? That doesn't make it attractive to watch or in fact necessary. Warrington have the best defence in the league this season and they don't slow down the PTB in the way Wigan can do. Teams don't have to do that to have a good defence.
Well, it didn't work against Warrington and it didn't work against us on Sunday. Coaches have gotten wise to it. Hopefully that includes the Dragons' coach!
Nope. I think Wire have the best balance. And us, based on our game on Sunday.'" Wigan have got the trophies inthe cabinet, and they've done it with a much more modest squad of players than Wire have running out for them. It obviously works.
Hopefully coaches have got the measure of it, but I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.
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| Quote: McClennan "That's all well and good but Leeds haven't managed to perform at a level capable of beating the top three. Even in the cup final, where some Wigoon fans have said they didn't play particularly well in, it still wasn't good enough. What makes you think that Leeds can throw off a season of mediocrity like it was a summer duvet cover on a hot morning? A couple of wins against poorly performing or uninterested sides doesn't suddenly mean you're a force that's going to storm the barricades of Old Trafford. Hull KR beat Saints and Catalans whilst Leeds beat Wakefield, Huddersfield and Hull. I don't think anybody was coming out and saying Hull KR were dark horses for the final so why bother hyping up Leeds so much.
Leeds have quality players no doubt but let's not apportion the same fear and respect to them as the champions because the latter has earned it whilst the former has squandered and lost it this year.'"
It's all about perspective.
Leeds have been poor most of the season so their recent performances are viewed in that context.
Were they champions or a top 2 team they'd be viewed in the context of a team coming back into form. The thing is, although leeds have had a couple of iffy seasons consistency wise, they still have the spine that won 3 titles on the trot so you can't really write the current mob off, however unlikely.
Leeds have a bad record against the top teams this year. But you have to remember defeats against warrington and saints came at a time when they simply weren't respecting the ball and defence was shoddy. Since these issue have been corrected and they've pushed wigan damned close twice.
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "Wigan have got the trophies inthe cabinet, '"
Again, I say ... so? We had trophies in the cabinet under Millward, but he didn't use that style of defence, nor did McRae or Anderson. Anderson of course introduced us to the concept of defence and so we weren't as flighty as under Millward but we didn't play to slow the PTB like Wigan aim to do. There are other, equally if not more so effective means of defence and since Warrington have the best defence in the league this season it is logical to assume theirs is actually the most effective.
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| Quote: marcel "It's all about perspective.
Leeds have been poor most of the season so their recent performances are viewed in that context.
Were they champions or a top 2 team they'd be viewed in the context of a team coming back into form. The thing is, although leeds have had a couple of iffy seasons consistency wise, they still have the spine that won 3 titles on the trot so you can't really write the current mob off, however unlikely.
Leeds have a bad record against the top teams this year. But you have to remember defeats against warrington and saints came at a time when they simply weren't respecting the ball and defence was shoddy. Since these issue have been corrected and they've pushed wigan damned close twice.'"
unfortunately that "spine" is now old and well past it. Senior and Peacock and Webb are 2/3 seasons past their best and Burrow/maguire/sinfield just havnt been able to recreate they're old form
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| Quote: SaintsFan "Again, I say ... so? '" So, I'm saying its worked for them. Its been a major factors in winning trophies and being the best team in the competition. If a coach finds something that works, he's going to use it.
Quote: SaintsFan "We had trophies in the cabinet under Millward,'" Yes, but do you reckon Millward could've won the league with the Squad wigan did?
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "So, I'm saying its worked for them. Its been a major factors in winning trophies and being the best team in the competition. If a coach finds something that works, he's going to use it.'"
Except they aren't the best team in the comp. Warrington is.
And it still spoils RL as a spectacle.
And I can't now remember what the original point of this exchange was!
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| Quote: SaintsFan "Except they aren't the best team in the comp. Warrington is.
And it still spoils RL as a spectacle.
And I can't now remember what the original point of this exchange was!'"
I agree with the middle bit. My point is that its down to the officials, and the guidance they receive from above to keep that side of things in check accross the sport as a whole.
Wigan are only playing the game as they're allowed by the officials. The tactics they've employed since McGuire arrived made a half decent bunch of players into the best team in the competition.
We were just talking about good defence, but how the freedom players have allow the Wigan tactic to dominate the specticle.
As solid as we were on sunday in terms of making tackles when we had to, Wigan still made yards with every set easier than you'd think. That probably kept them as close as they were. If we'd have controlled the ruck as they can, we'd have won by 30 points.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "Except they aren't the best team in the comp. Warrington is. '"
I thought you are a teacher? Warrington is? Warrington are!
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| Warrington maybe the best but we can still be champions
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| Quote: Saint Simon "I thought you are a teacher? Warrington is? Warrington are!'"
Actually, at the risk of appearing pedantic ( ) "is" is strictly correct. Warrington in this sense refers to a team (singular) so the use of "is" rather than "are", from a purely grammatical position is the appropriate usage. Of course when referring to teams the common usage is the plural as in "Wigan were garbage on Sunday" rather than "Leeds is a fading force".
Where SaintsFan did go wrong is using the singular and plural terms in consecutive, related sentences.
Is it Australia or USA where teams are usually referred to in the singular?
Anyway, English lesson over.
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| Quote: MickeyMo "Where SaintsFan did go wrong is using the singular and plural terms in consecutive, related sentences.
Indeed I did (go wrong, that is). I was being a bit RFL there (inconsistent). I'm on a message board and not in the classroom so I don't pick up on other people's use of language (unless I'm feeling y) and I don't really take much notice of my own.
America refer to teams in the plural. I think Australia follow us in this respect (or follow us when we are applying the rules of British English accurately anyway).
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