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| Quote Saint Simon="Saint Simon"I think where you are falling down is that you quoting league express! Surely a teacher would be aware that many publications spout drivel, let alone LE!'"
League Express were quoting the RFL. |
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| Quote Wigan/Leeds Andy="Wigan/Leeds Andy"Lets says a club still has to play their local derby at home this season and are just under the 10,000 threshold. What do you think might happen if they weren't allowed to count their highest gate of the season when other clubs have? '"
But that's the point, isn't it? What defines a Grade A club from the rest is that they don't have to rely upon occasional boosts from derby matches. They have the crowds in the bag automatically. Wigan and Leeds would get a minimum 10,000 every season without even trying. Saints most definitely would not. If we need to wait for our derby matches to get past the magical number then we aint a Grade A club, are we? |
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Saints Fan - sorry, but have to agree with Wigan / Leeds Andy here. The bids were submitted much earlier in the season, March time I think, when clubs would have had about 4 home games max. To base the season's average attendance on 4 out of 13 home games is ridiculous.
The stuff you quote from League Express states "the last 3 seasons". My reading of that (of course, it's open to interpretation) are the seasons 2008 - 2010. Those are the last 3 seasons - 2011 is the current, ongoing season.
A bit like the Championship clubs - they could only apply for a License based on a Grand Final appearance / Northern Rail cup win from the seasons 2008 - 2010 (the last 3 seasons). Leigh won the NRC this year, but couldn't apply for a license for 2012 - 2014.
What I think we all agree on is that when we move into the new stadium, as long as we return to at least KR crowd figures (and realistically, we should expect to exceed them), then we will be getting a A grade License next time.
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It gets embarrassing at times the most petty arguments! St Helens got a Grade B and that was under the clearly defined rules, everyone was well aware of them and signed up to them.
Finances, can anyone tell me one club in Super League that could survive without the SKY TV money? no one could live on gate receipts alone. It is easy to knock Ian Lenagan at Wigan but did not Eamonn Macmanus when he bought the club really save it with his personal investment? I know David Hughes in London needs a very deep pocket to keep the club afloat, gone of the days of a butcher owning a rugby league club! I am sure Hull's new owner will put in much personal investment.
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| Quote steve="steve"You really are a nasty myopic little troll. Good effort to bring up a newspaper article that is nearly 12 months old BUT - the RFL criteria I have listed below and at no point is the fact that a club is losing money anything to do with anything.
Clubs that meet all of the A Grade criteria across these five areas have been be awarded an A Grade licence. For example, those clubs that have been awarded A Grade Licences have:
- Commercial income of at least £1m in each of 2009 and 2010.
- Average weekly home crowds of at least 10,000 in either the 2008, 2009 or 2010 seasons, and an average home crowd of at least 9,000 in the other 2 seasons.
- At least 5,000 season ticket holders in 2009 or 2010.
- A stadium with an operational capacity of at least 12,000, with at least 12,000 of the stadium capacity under cover and at least 5,000 seats (all of which are under cover and available for use).
- Audited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2009 and unaudited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2010.
- A Business Plan which includes budgeted profit and loss accounts and cash flow statements covering the four year period 01/01/2011 to 31/12/2014.
- All NI/PAYE/VAT payments up to date, with the exclusion of any ongoing investigation or recent extraordinary assessments.
- Achieved a top eight finish in any of the 2008, 2009 or 2010 Super League competitions.
- A four-year Player Development Strategy covering 2011 to 2014, with a clearly defined pathway from school to club to Service Area to Professional Club. The plan must stipulate budget and staffing structures.
- Demonstrated over the course of the 2009 or 2010 seasons that their community activity has engaged at least 10,000 individuals with the club.
In fact if it were, every club would be downgraded ,[uyour beloved Wigin included if losing money was a criterion[/u. All this has shown once again is that you spout opinions as fact. They are only a fact in your one eyed view of the world.'"
we made a profit last year didnt we? |
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| International Chairman | 11377 | St. Helens |
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We haven't got a fully functioning home ground, "B" grade is what I would have expected.
We'll walk an "A" next time round.
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| Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"We'll walk an "A" next time round.'"
But will 2011, 2012 and 2013 be the seasons we will be judged on or 2012, 2013 and 2014? If as people are suggesting it is the former then we may not; if it is the latter then I'm dead sure we will. |
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| Moderator | 14324 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote SaintsFan="SaintsFan"But that's the point, isn't it? What defines a Grade A club from the rest is that they don't have to rely upon occasional boosts from derby matches. They have the crowds in the bag automatically. Wigan and Leeds would get a minimum 10,000 every season without even trying. Saints most definitely would not. If we need to wait for our derby matches to get past the magical number then we aint a Grade A club, are we?'"
That's not the point. The point is it is average attendances over the last three years that are taken, if you take an average attendance when not everyone has played everyone else you are not treating everyone equally.
One of the criteria is being in the top 8 the last three years - do you think they look at who was in the top 8 when the bids were submitted as take that for this year, as that is essentially what you were saying. |
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| Moderator | 14324 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"We haven't got a fully functioning home ground, "B" grade is what I would have expected.
We'll walk an "A" next time round.'"
Agreed. |
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Who cares? A or B we're still in so what are you bothered about?
If it was B and there were 14 clubs with an A I'd be worried.
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| Quote Wigan/Leeds Andy="Wigan/Leeds Andy"That's not the point. The point is it is average attendances over the last three years that are taken, if you take an average attendance when not everyone has played everyone else you are not treating everyone equally.'"
Yes you are. All you need to do is make sure everyone has played the same number of games. |
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| International Chairman | 11377 | St. Helens |
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| Sep 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote SaintsFan="SaintsFan"Yes you are. All you need to do is make sure everyone has played the same number of games.'"
That's a bit daft.
Say we fell just under a threshold but hadn't played Wigan at home, but Wigan were just above it having played us at the DW.
Would it be fair for them to be graded higher on attendances? |
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