Just to emphasise the point, Tomkins rattled up twice as many metres as Wello with the ball in his hand. Pace at full back please Royce.

Tomkins is a world class player, hope he carries his club form into the 4 nations. He generally doesnt have one of his better games against us (WIRE)but none the less he is a phenomenal player. I think he is one of them players who could play in most positions and still shine.Going off the subject of Tomkins,Saints dont appear to have any problem with playing out of their skins when playing Wire, maybe Saints see it as their cup final?????

Alternatively, perhaps you make us look like we're playing out of our skins when we're really just average.

Pat Richards played full back when we won at Wigan.

edit - should read the whole thread

It was after that game at our place that Sam moved back to FB I think as Madge dropped Pryce all together and went with a Goulding STomkins Richards back 3 which he has stuck with ever since.

Sam has a rare quality what many players dont have, and its that acceleration of the mark - once he sees a gap it is usually very hard to stop him breaking the line. Our 2nd try on Saturday showed that he saw that gap he wanted to hit, rode the challenge of Lomax and then offloaded and creating a huge hole in your defence.

I hope he can do it for England, but I have a feeling he wont have the same effect as he doesnt have a world class back with him, with the likes of Robinson and Brown not good enough.

Saying that, he is the future of our team and long may that continue.

I've had this thought before though, and the debate in my mind springs from the fact that Scott Moore is often judged on what he could do, whereas with smith, you're a lot more sure of the level that you'll actually get. Smith impressed at crusaders playing at hooker and to be honest it suits his playmaking game a bit as it thrusts him further into the action.
Moore has wonderful potential and can come up with some wonderful plays, but he's also got some rotters in him. I've also questioned his heart on occasion - he loves to smash the full back as they take a kick, but there was definately a moment in the Leeds game at home when he bottled the tackle on Bailey close to the line, from which they scored.

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Re Tomkins. I think he'll become a more rounded player as we go on, but his raw talent combined with his spirit make him such a handful.
Midway through the season I'd have rated Eastmond higher, unfortunatley we just can't get him on the pitch long enough and while he's been sidelined, Tomkins has been stealing the show. It just makes Eastmond's apparent susceptibility all the more frustrating when his Wigan counterpart seems pretty much bullet proof.

So?

Karl Pryce. All the (potential) talent in the world and doesn't have the heart to fulfill it. I worry Eastmond is heading the same way (although not as drastically)

Sam is harder to control from fullback, as he has a bit more time to decide when to run and when to pass.

Watch the Leeds semi at Headingley and you'll understand what I mean. he's a superb talented and tough player, who even now would walk into any NRL side.

Even as a Saints fan I would take Tomkins over Eastmond any day. He's a talent that comes along rarely - he has vision, pace, guile, speed and is as tough as anyone. But the one thing that makes him better than many/most is what most class players have - time. He appears to have oceans of it and he's a pleasure to watch.

Kyle is an opportunist - mesmeric in flashes and bursts but not consistently even accounting for his injuries. A number 7 (and Tomkins isn't one so the comparison doesn't apply) he needs to control and direct a game, take the ball to he line to bring on runners and be prepared to take a smack, and be present throughout the game.

I am not bagging Kyle - he has talent and has bad luck. But on what I have seen so far I wish Tomkins was a Saints player.

Despite so many comparisons that are drawn between them, I think they're very differnet players. I (perhaps in the minority on this board) think Kyle is ideally suited to the first reciever role of scrum half. He's got a decent kicking and passing game but it complemented by his speed off the mark, something very valuable close to the ruck. Sam seems to especially excell when he gets the ball slightly wider in his stand off or full back roles, already moving when he can utilise those rangy sidesteps to taunt the defence.
What would have hopefully improved with Kyle's game had he got a full season would have been his decision making and game plan execution, something saints are very much missing at the moment.

They could have been a devastating partnership if they linked up for England fully fit.

Agreed.

I think it was what any sensible England RL fan wanted.

I agree with your point of needing pace at full back, although Wello does a superb job for us at full back. The only point I wanted to make about the number of metres made by Tomkins compared to Wello is that our kicking game played a vital part, in that:

1. We kicked to Tomkins on the last tackle a hell of a lot (while Wigan kicked to Wello, Foster, Meli, and to touch).
2. Tomkins got the majority of our kicks on the full, whilst we had to retrieve the ball from the floor.

Both of those contibute in Tomkins being able to gain more metres.

I do agree though, that a pacy fullback is almost a requirement these days.