FORUMS > St. Helens > The Salary Cap |
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7007.jpg [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg |
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2960.jpg :2960.jpg |
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| Quote: Deano G "Yes, what a victory for the CC... four mediocre teams contesting the semi-finals of the cup... a giant leap forward in quality...
Huddersfield were excellent and are the best defensive team in the league. Just because you think they're mediocre doesn't make it true.
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| Quote: FearTheVee "Huddersfield were excellent and are the best defensive team in the league. Just because you think they're mediocre doesn't make it true.'"
What makes it mediocre is that the Giants side is a decent side and nothing more. Standards have equalled out but the quality on show today is poor compared to the standard of 10 years ago.
Would you imagine that side holding out the Saints of Milward, Wigan over 10 years ago and the Bulls of 5 years ago. Whilst the cap has made each match a game where most results are not for gone conclusions, the standard of play has paid a heavy price. Lets put it this way. the great Saints side that Milward hade would have hammered both sides. As the ball retention of both sides was very poor and i think at one point in the second half it was mentioned that Giants completion rate was 60%. Might be wrong but im fairly certain of that.
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7007.jpg [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg |
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2595.jpg I'm not Jesus Christ, I've come to accept that now.
[quote][b]XBrettKennyX wrote:[/b] Once more the anti SC brigade, purposely or otherwise fail to see the point.
Thick as pig swill.[/quote]:2595.jpg |
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| Quote: tank123 "What makes it mediocre is that the Giants side is a decent side and nothing more. Standards have equalled out but the quality on show today is poor compared to the standard of 10 years ago.
Would you imagine that side holding out the Saints of Milward, Wigan over 10 years ago and the Bulls of 5 years ago. Whilst the cap has made each match a game where most results are not for gone conclusions, the standard of play has paid a heavy price. Lets put it this way. the great Saints side that Milward hade would have hammered both sides. As the ball retention of both sides was very poor and i think at one point in the second half it was mentioned that Giants completion rate was 60%. Might be wrong but im fairly certain of that.'"
Saints of 2002ish would have scored more points but not as many as you think. They'd also have conceded more.
The Wigan of 10 years ago would have been held out.
The Bulls of 5 years ago would have produced a similar game.
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| Quote: Deano G "And last night two of those mediocre teams played again and produced a game of poor quality and poor entertainment value, while Leeds humiliated Castleford 72-16, a perfect example of the level playing field at work. Yet more victories for the CC...
Newslfash.
Its not the salary cap thats made wigan cr@p. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you can get over it because at the moment, you and BK are obsessed. Although you claim it has nothing to do with Wigans cr@pness, we know it does. No matter how much you claim it isnt, its about time you stop blaming the cap for the mickey mouse way in which your club is run.
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34579_1267562925.jpg Saints: 100% Bitter, 0% Class:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34579.jpg |
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| Quote: Huntington Beach Bad Boy "Newslfash.
Its not the salary cap thats made wigan cr@p. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you can get over it because at the moment, you and BK are obsessed. Although you claim it has nothing to do with Wigans cr@pness, we know it does. No matter how much you claim it isnt, its about time you stop blaming the cap for the mickey mouse way in which your club is run.'"
Infact its is all related, we have been ran poorly yes, we have struggled with the salary cap yes. So we can blame both, technically.
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Black Backgrounds/Statler.gif :Black Backgrounds/Statler.gif |
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| Quote: tank123 "What makes it mediocre is that the Giants side is a decent side and nothing more. Standards have equalled out but the quality on show today is poor compared to the standard of 10 years ago.
Would you imagine that side holding out the Saints of Milward, Wigan over 10 years ago and the Bulls of 5 years ago. Whilst the cap has made each match a game where most results are not for gone conclusions, the standard of play has paid a heavy price. Lets put it this way. the great Saints side that Milward hade would have hammered both sides. As the ball retention of both sides was very poor and i think at one point in the second half it was mentioned that Giants completion rate was 60%. Might be wrong but im fairly certain of that.'"
The salary cap was in place for the Millward side of a few years ago, and for the Bradford side of five years ago. So this post doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense.
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Black Backgrounds/Zoot.gif --------
My next challenge for The Steve Prescott Foundation, is to walk from Land End to John O Groats, 900 miles, in just 12 days.
If you would like to sponsor me, click [url:3hj7fcks]https://www.justgiving.com/AdeCunliffe[/url:3hj7fcks] or PM me.
[b:3hj7fcks]"What the mind believes, the body achieves"[/b:3hj7fcks]:Black Backgrounds/Zoot.gif |
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| Quote: Smurf "The salary cap was in place for the Millward side of a few years ago, and for the Bradford side of five years ago. So this post doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense.'"
Agreed. Madness.
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7007.jpg [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg |
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| Quote: Smurf "The salary cap was in place for the Millward side of a few years ago, and for the Bradford side of five years ago. So this post doesn't even make a tiny bit of sense.'"
We have always been told by cap supporters that its effects would take a number of years to be felt, that the level playing field would arrive one day. Some have said that this season is the one that the cap has "finally" levelled out the competition (though try telling that to Cas fans after their record defeat at Headingley the other night!)
And yet when it suits you (when facing arguments about the long term damage the CC is doing to the sport) you say that the CC's effects should be felt quickly... hilarious and yet so disappointing.
This is typical of the faulty reasoning of CC supporters.
If you have an argument with any merit it is difficult to see it beneath the urban myths, anti-Wigan bile, logical non-sequiturs etc.
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7007.jpg [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg |
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| Quote: Huntington Beach Bad Boy "Newslfash.
Its not the salary cap thats made wigan cr@p. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you can get over it because at the moment, you and BK are obsessed. Although you claim it has nothing to do with Wigans cr@pness, we know it does. No matter how much you claim it isnt, its about time you stop blaming the cap for the mickey mouse way in which your club is run.'"
A perfect example of the anti-Wigan bile I was talking about, thank you.
Actually Wigan - if we had a decent coach and backroom set up - would be well placed to do very well under the CC.
The Wigan club has many advantages over rival clubs when you look at things in the round - the strong amateur tradition in the Wigan area, the excellent facilities, the big crowds that any player would want to play in front of and of course the biggest brand name in British RL.
In the long run I expect Wigan to be one of the most successful clubs under the CC. I think IL will deliver that over the longer term.
Arguably the abolition of the CC would put Wigan at a disadvantage since in IL we have a conservative owner who wouldn't splash the cash on big signings. It would however be better for the sport as a whole, that's why I support it, because unlike the narrow minded my club first people who make up the majority of pro-CC fanatics, I am an RL fan first, even before my own club.
For the record I'd like to see financial controls on clubs remain, just not the CC in its current form. RL clubs have shown over the years that they can't be trusted with freedom of spending, that I think everyone can agree on.
I would like to see a system where clubs submit business plans which are then independently audited at the start of each season and the clubs forced to stick to that budget. That way we could encourage clubs to grow their incomes, start playing players a bit more if it can be afforded instead of cutting players' wages in real terms and have proper financial controls to stop clubs getting into financial difficulties (which the CC has failed to do e.g. Gateshull, London and Bradford to name but three examples). At the moment we have a dumbing down system that removes any incentive for clubs to grow their revenue and encourages all to settle at the lowest level. Where other sports (RU for example) have had caps they have said at the outset that the plan is to raise them as clubs incomes grow. We have the opposite mentality in our game, that small and poor is best. Its pathetic.
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Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG |
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| Quote: Deano G "
I would like to see a system where clubs submit business plans which are then independently audited at the start of each season and the clubs forced to stick to that budget. That way we could encourage clubs to grow their incomes, start playing players a bit more if it can be afforded instead of cutting players' wages in real terms and have proper financial controls to stop clubs getting into financial difficulties (which the CC has failed to do e.g. Gateshull, London and Bradford to name but three examples). At the moment we have a dumbing down system that removes any incentive for clubs to grow their revenue and encourages all to settle at the lowest level. Where other sports (RU for example) have had caps they have said at the outset that the plan is to raise them as clubs incomes grow. We have the opposite mentality in our game, that small and poor is best. Its pathetic.'"
Well said, I get the impression the RFL have "manipulated" the competition this season. We are seeing the top 4 being dragged down into the "middle of the pack" instead of the other way round. I also think the reffing has been very contentious this year giving a disadvantage to the more skilful sides. We have had teams scoring more trys from speculative kicks than at any other time so far.
As its been said the RFL have "dumbed down" the season.
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| Quote: Deano G "icon_confused.gif
If had actually taken time to read what was said, then maybe you would understand. Whilst it is obviously surpassing your angry rose tinted judgment, I will explain it for you:
"Would you imagine that side holding out the Saints of Milward, Wigan over 10 years ago and the Bulls of 5 years ago"
No matter how good/bad the other teams are, the great Saints side of Millward times was capped just like the current one is. Therefore, the standard of player should be the same, and if it isn't, then it isn't the salary cap's fault. The reason the cap, in your words, took a while to level things out, is because the so called 'lesser' clubs could not spend up to the full limit when the salary cap was initially introduced.
Also, seeing as you fancy tarring everyone with the same brush, never once did I mention that I support the salary cap. I was merely pointing out that the argument presented by the poster in question was completely invalid, but your defensive stance probably tells its own story.
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7007.jpg [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg |
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| Quote: Smurf "If had actually taken time to read what was said, then maybe you would understand. Whilst it is obviously surpassing your angry rose tinted judgment, I will explain it for you
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Black Backgrounds/Statler.gif :Black Backgrounds/Statler.gif |
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| Quote: Deano G "supporting[/i tank123's post (which made perfect sense, by the way, the thesis being clearly that the CC has led in the long term to a decline in standards, and whether you agree with this or not, it certainly isn't a nonsensical argument, it is in fact logically consistent).
I'm not angry, in fact amused would be the most accuraate description of how I feel about your posts.
Please let me know where I indicated that a TOP team (Saints) would have a worse standard of player as they did with Millwards best team, which was also governed by a salary cap? You either cannot or are not reading.
Saints side in 2004 = constricted by a salary cap
Saints side in 2009 = constricted by a salary cap
Why would there be a decline in standards?
Please don't avoid the topic this time, I'd love to hear your explanation of this.
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