Effort, enthusiasm and courage are no longer enough. We need pace at that position. Why are people still struggling to see this especially when they're the same people that normally complain about the lack of pace on the wing? We need to bite the bullet on this and it has been something that's been a serious concern since at least the second Grand Final loss to Leeds. He has been a great player but this isn't football and physical discrepancies can be cruelly exposed in the most subtle ways at this level i.e. kick returns, linking up, breaks that can't go further than a few metres.

If anyone wants a reminder of what having pace at full back can do, go and look at Amos Roberts' tries during that glorious run he had just before his injury. It was incredible stuff.

75-0 against a reserve side led by Ian Millward looks amazing on paper, and I'm not surprised you're still after all this time dining out on it.

I'd suggest that the several beatings we've put on your first choice sides lately are a bit more substantial than that one freak result, wouldn't you? You might open your other eye to see it, though, that's the only problem.

Look, love, put your fishing rod away. I didn't say that and you know it.

You will also see that I have been supportive of your predicament in other posts.

75-0 will always be wonderful. It was wonderful in 2006 when we won everything on offer. It is wonderful today when we have won nothing for years. It will always be wonderful and it is good of you to remind us of it.

(At least we have two eyes to open ...)

Fair enough. I presume you mean consistently distinctly average, in which case you have a point.

Ive bagged Perry for a lot this season and i refuse to believe anyone actually thinks this guy is any good. Lacklustre in attack a lot of the time and often standard in defence. Wigan are a freakish team, they have players that can slot so easily into the prop position from second row. Hock does it with ease and id imagine that Hansen could do it. We have one player who can play both positions, TP. Clough occasionally does it but i see him more as a ball carrying 11 getting the tough yards to compensate for Perry being out there at the same time basically doing what Gilmour used to do. Franchise has been the best prop we have without doubt, shame he is a good 2nd row forward playing out of positions to paper over the cracks Jammer left.

The back line is a mystery, how certain players get extensions is quite unbelievable. Then again we have to think of how many "Saints standard" wingers are out there and have been available. Many of the wingers in SL are products of a youth system, they have taken their chances in the 1st team and kept their places, then signed 4/5 year deals. The truth is we got stung at the worst time as we were very lax in the youth system out wide and then when Albert left we had a big hole. There is no way Saints could afford a Briscoe, Jones Bishop, Charnley etc etc and i don't think they have the patience for it either.

I cannot fathom a reason why Saints (and Brown) would offer Wellens a new deal, he isn't the type of player Brown likes and i can't believe that Paul doesn't know his time is up too. Long left when we didn't give him what he wanted, sorry Wello but i wouldn't offer you 1 year. His replacement is tough though, i don't think Makinson is as capable under the high ball ( see Saturday for examples) and Ashe I've seen little of. Lomax is an option but then the half back carousel goes round again and we can't afford to mix it around like we have Wheeler in, Gaskell in, Hohaia in etc etc.

I'd happily take a decent season with a win or two in the playoffs but time for rebuilding does not start with 80 minutes at Old Trafford. A long as Leeds/Wire/Wigan don't win it id be happy.

And twelve fingers to count them on.

I've only seen Makinson fluff two catches, and the one on Saturday was in his hands but nicked by the oncoming Wigan attack. That ball was supposed to go to Gelling and he'd already beaten Gelling to it. Give the lad a break. To judge his whole potential on one occasion is ridiculous.

Personally, I'd be very happy for him to be given a shot at fullback on a regular basis. That will help improve his game and give him the experience he needs.

I agree with this,you cant judge someone for dropping the ball now and then,its rare he misses a catch and even the best players in the world drop them now and again,his pace from fullback would really trouble defences

Hohaia
Swift
Jones
Shenton
Makinson
Wheeler
Gaskell
Lms
Roby
Laffranchi
Soliola
Wilkin
Lomax



Hohaia to full back must happen now. Move Shenton over to the left centre role see if it can bring about some improvement. Wheeler to move into six with Gaskell pulling the strings at 7. Unfortunately not much we can do with the front row. Use wilkin as a ball playing elusive running second row. And shift Lomax into loose forward into the way in which hudds use Kevin Brown. None of this will happen but if Nathan Brown was coaching us now i could envisage a similar line up.

When we play you at the HJ in a few months time, please please play this team. With each player in the positions given above.

They can try it out at the Etihad in two weeks just too see if it works.

McManus needs to be ruthless with the squad just like he has been with the coach.

Simmons wasn't good enough, McManus knew it and he acted. He went for the man he wanted and has got him for next season. A short term hit for a medium / long term gain.

He needs to do the same with some of the playing staff and get rid of the dead wood and be ambitious with the recruitment.

I'm looking at a potential team and picking holes in several areas~:

1. New FB required - Wellens gives it everything, but it's such a pivotal position offensively now. You need pace in abundance in this area. His output in comparison to Tomkins just doesn't compare. Makinson or Lomax are potential replacements, with Lomax being the most obvious.
2. Gardner - I don't mind Gardner personally, he's done a good job for us. His strike rate is very impressive. It's lower down the priorities for me.
3. New Centre required (Turner?) - Shenton has been a huge disappointment. He's just a solid player who doesn't really do anything. You can't have strike Centres doing nothing. Willie Talau wasn't prolific but he had a knack of scoring big tries or coming up with a big hit to change a game. What does Shenton actually do?
4. Wheeler / Jones - I'm quite happy to give Wheeler or Jones a go here. If we had a more balanced attack they'd flourish more.
5. Makinson - The kid turns up in big games. I can see the thinking behind bringing the experienced pro's back into the team at the expense of the inexperienced players, but Makinson has done little wrong and his pace is good enough to cause a real threat with good service.
6. New number 6 required - Sorry Lance, you're never a 6 in the memory of man. The biggest priority is this area IMO.
7. Gaskell / Lomax - I don't think we can afford to pick both in the halves but one of them alongside an experienced, organising half back like a Briers, Finch or Brough and they'd both do very well and develop. Sean Long had Tommy Martyn and Pryce later had Sean Long, Lomax / Gaskell need guidance.
8. Laffranchi - Quite happy with him, I think he's done a good job in replacing the world's best prop. Not the same calibre of player, but not a disappointment either.
9. Roby - easy pick.
10. New prop required - I think we lack a big prop who leads from the front and causes damage up front. We have hard working toilers, but no-one that really dominates the opposition.
11. Manu?
12. Soliola
13. Wilkin

14. Flanaghan
15. Puletua - could be equally devastating in the front row, back row or bench
16. LMS - Needs to step up, he's been a bit disappointing for me but shows quality in patches. I wouldn't wield the axe yet.
17. Clough - An honest toiler, who is undervalued

The likes of Magennis, Ashe, Dixon, Swift, Forster etc in reserve.

Wellens, Shenton, Hohaia, Perry, Meli and Flannery all to go at the end of the season for me. I know 3 aren't OOC, but tough decisions have to be made.

Turner, Manu are supposed to be coming in. I'd then look overseas for a quality half back and prop and move Lomax to full back. Quality over quantity needed.

I prefer to see a player picked on merit. Based on this years performances, meli deserves to be picked before foster, regardless of age, reputation, place of birth etc. what you say certainly matters when contract extensions are concerned, then age and potential need to be considered, but when a coach is picking a team from his available squad, he must do it on merit. That's not to say that I would personally give cap space to either foster or meli, but that's a different argument altogether.

No he doesn't, that is the job for Brown. McManus shouldn't be deciding the squad composition at all, he should be providing the funds, and if necessary doing the negotiations, but Brown should be solely responsible for who comes in and out.