FORUMS > St. Helens > Brave but ultimately poor |
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| Quote: Saddened! "It's pretty hard to knock the players after that effort last night. A real gruelling game, a fantastic advert for Super League and the intensity of the play offs. Leeds are a superb side, a side of winners and I want them to win it again. They've got everything we're lacking by the bucket load.
Leeds dominated us throughout in terms of field position and Sinfield and particularly Burrow marshalled them round really well. If we had one player of the quality of Sinfield, Burrow or McGuire we'd have won last night. The lads defended superbly, some really heroic stuff. Manu, Jones and Wilkin all tackled themselves to a standstill. I thought Manu was absolutely sensational tonight, setting a ridiculously high standard throughout. LMS too had a dig again.
When we did get chances tonight we were pretty shocking. Although the defense was good tonight, the attack wasn't good enough. We've had a full season under Brown and it still doesn't look like the players actually know what they are supposed to be doing when they get into the opposition half. It seems plays 1 and 2 are just one up tackle wasters to settle in. 3 is a crashball pass telegraphed, faxed and emailed to the defense in advance and plays 4 and 5 are blind panic. I think some of the senior players really need to take some of the blame for it though. Meli's hand in to give a stupid penalty on Leeds' line on a rare sortie down into Leeds 20, Roby's decision to kick on the second when under Leeds' sticks when it wasn't on at all was also stupid. Hohaia seemed to spend the game chastising the likes of Wilkin, Roby and Lomax for what they did on the previous play. Roby in particular was awful in his decision making.
A point I'd given up making recently out of sheer boredom, Paul Wellens. Paul Wellens starting at fullback is one thing. It's a stupid thing and a should-have-ended-4-years-ago thing, but it's nothing compared to the ridiculousness of starting with Paul Wellens on the bench. He didn't seem to get on until the hour mark. Why bring him on at all? Is that Brown protesting at McManus forcing him to be in the 17? Or is there meant to be some kind of point to having the slowest back in the history of the world on the bench?
Last night kind of sums our season up to be honest. Solid in defense, like headless chickens with the ball. It's incredibly naive of us to think Luke Walsh, a player proven to collapse under pressure, will solve all our problems. We NEED another halfback.'"
How to contradict yourself in one post.
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| Quote: bewareshadows "How to contradict yourself in one post.
How so? I said it was hard, didn't say I wasn't going to
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| Is this post a take?
Where you watching the same game to the rest of us?
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| Quote: theblondebomber "Is this post a mickey take?
Where you watching the same game to the rest of us?'"
What was your opinion on it then? Did you think having Wello on the bench till the hour mark was a good move? Did we attack well? Did we not defend well? Which bit of it are you referring to when you ask if I was watching another game?
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| Quote: Saddened! " Did you think having Wello on the bench till the hour mark was a good move?'"
It was a masterstroke. Wellens nearly won the game for saints. He works well as an impact sub in the rob burrow mould.
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| Quote: Saddened! "It's pretty hard to knock the players after that effort last night. A real gruelling game, a fantastic advert for Super League and the intensity of the play offs. Leeds are a superb side, a side of winners and I want them to win it again. They've got everything we're lacking by the bucket load.
Leeds dominated us throughout in terms of field position and Sinfield and particularly Burrow marshalled them round really well. If we had one player of the quality of Sinfield, Burrow or McGuire we'd have won last night. The lads defended superbly, some really heroic stuff. Manu, Jones and Wilkin all tackled themselves to a standstill. I thought Manu was absolutely sensational tonight, setting a ridiculously high standard throughout. LMS too had a dig again.
When we did get chances tonight we were pretty shocking. Although the defense was good tonight, the attack wasn't good enough. We've had a full season under Brown and it still doesn't look like the players actually know what they are supposed to be doing when they get into the opposition half. It seems plays 1 and 2 are just one up tackle wasters to settle in. 3 is a crashball pass telegraphed, faxed and emailed to the defense in advance and plays 4 and 5 are blind panic. I think some of the senior players really need to take some of the blame for it though. Meli's hand in to give a stupid penalty on Leeds' line on a rare sortie down into Leeds 20, Roby's decision to kick on the second when under Leeds' sticks when it wasn't on at all was also stupid. Hohaia seemed to spend the game chastising the likes of Wilkin, Roby and Lomax for what they did on the previous play. Roby in particular was awful in his decision making.
A point I'd given up making recently out of sheer boredom, Paul Wellens. Paul Wellens starting at fullback is one thing. It's a stupid thing and a should-have-ended-4-years-ago thing, but it's nothing compared to the ridiculousness of starting with Paul Wellens on the bench. He didn't seem to get on until the hour mark. Why bring him on at all? Is that Brown protesting at McManus forcing him to be in the 17? Or is there meant to be some kind of point to having the slowest back in the history of the world on the bench?
Last night kind of sums our season up to be honest. Solid in defense, like headless chickens with the ball. It's incredibly naive of us to think Luke Walsh, a player proven to collapse under pressure, will solve all our problems. We NEED another halfback.'"
This guy has been calling for a 7 all season. We sign one from the NRL and he's not even played for us but yet he cracks under pressure. Your post isn't pointing out anything we don't already know. As for Roby not playing well as you claim, he has hardly played all season. If you have ever played sport at any level you will realise a tired body leads to a tired mind. Yes his decisions weren't perfect as he was ring rusty. Sia didn't break a tackle all night as he was not match fit.
You're very good at criticising the team and how they play but, very vague on your solutions to the problems
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| Quote: Saddened! "What was your opinion on it then? Did you think having Wello on the bench till the hour mark was a good move? Did we attack well? Did we not defend well? Which bit of it are you referring to when you ask if I was watching another game?'"
You say we were ultimately poor and go on to praise how good Sinfield and Burrow were, but they scored the same amount of tries as us and had more territory than us. So where Leeds poor offensively aswell?
Considering we have no half backs and a back rower has had to fill in all season I thought we did pretty well to be honest. It was an intense game (it would've been fitting of a Grand Final it was that good) where defences were strong, it wasn't really the kind of night where the attacks shine.
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| thought your lads played really well, great game
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| I thought it was a good game, Leeds had more chances, more territory, but Saints defence held well. In saying that I didnt think either would go on to win the SL this year.
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| Quote: roader "Wellens should have been at fullback all season. I'm still to be convinced that Lomax is a fullback.'"
I'm not sure why. He's a decent defender, can take a high ball and is much more dangerous in attack than Wellens. The fact that he gains us an extra 20-30m on pretty much every kick return also takes pressure off the rest of the team.
The swap was a no brainer for me.
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| Who are these magic fix all halfbacks that are off contract?
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Jul 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: Blobbynator "You say we were ultimately poor and go on to praise how good Sinfield and Burrow were, but they scored the same amount of tries as us and had more territory than us. So where Leeds poor offensively aswell?'"
Yes, I'd say so. They had the lions share of the possession and territory throughout the game. At half time they'd had 20 more play the balls than us and the graphic Clarke does which does where those play the balls happened were telling. We had little ball outside of our own half and only 2 in the opposition 10m. I think by comparison they'd had 17 in ours. It was a combination of a remarkable defensive performance and a lack of clinical execution from Leeds. They put too much ball down and didn't take anywhere near enough advantage of how on top they were throughout the game. The game was the equivalent of a penalty shootout win for a big side in football playing against a minnow, dominating the game but unable to score.
Quote: Blobbynator "Considering we have no half backs and a back rower has had to fill in all season I thought we did pretty well to be honest.'"
That's why I put my opening line. Given what we are, it wasn't a bad performance, it was a brave fall onto the sword if you will. It is however completely the club's fault that we went into the season with that squad and that shouldn't be forgotten because of the upturn in form towards the end of the season. A lot of mistakes were made before the season even started and Brown can't come out of it with a completely positive scorecard either. Whilst he has to a degree steadied a ship he unbalanced, he has left the side looking pretty shambolic with the ball in big games. Signing Luke Walsh is a positive move, but it isn't going to solve all our problems in one go. He absolutely MUST have a partner next season and his partner ABSOLUTELY CANNOT have the surname Wheeler, Hohaia or Wellens.
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "Who are these magic fix all halfbacks that are off contract?'"
Rangi Chase, Sam Hopkins, Jacob Miller have all moved clubs. All those would have been good enough. The new stand off doesn't have to be a world class player either. They just have to be an established halfback with a bit of pace or an eye for a pass, someone to take the playmaking pressure off Walsh.
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| I often think this saddo is a pi%s taking wiginer who knows how to use the spell checker.
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| Quote: Saddened! "Rangi Chase, Sam Hopkins, Jacob Miller have all moved clubs. All those would have been good enough. The new stand off doesn't have to be a world class player either. They just have to be an established halfback with a bit of pace or an eye for a pass, someone to take the playmaking pressure off Walsh.'"
So you are saying Sam Hopkins is a good enough stand-off to play for Saints and we should have signed him?
You aren't even aware that he is a prop forward, are you.
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