So what your saying is players should be able to pick and choose which games they are banned for

Just to take issue with a couple of your points (apologies to Saints fans -but he brought it up)

In terms of ties - you play in Super League. If Wigan get hammered by the Roosters then it affects the credibility of the competition. If it really is to be your year this year - then you might find that the NRL winners aren't that bothered about either hosting you or coming to the HJS.

Secondly the claim about taking players out is rich considering Ben Westwoods assault on Green at the start of the final when he knew he was unlikely to get sent off. Why don'y you just agree that BOTH sides are capable of dirty play?

Firstly, when have we claimed Saints were anything like perfect? When Gardner and Wilkin were banned at Hull KR last season we accepted that under the new rules, a ban was to be expected. The only time I remember having a moan about a decision like that was when Puletua (I think) got sent off at Catalans in 2012, but that was before the shoulder charge rule came in I think.

Anyway, Warrington have gone over to Aus for their pre-season many times before and have also been based with the Roosters before. You are talking as though Warrington specifically went over there to help them beat Wigan.

What irks me the most is the hypocrisy of the club. Take this past week as a perfect example. Nathan Brown comes out and has a moan about Wigan's habit of off the ball challenges. Wigan fans claim he is "just being a whining Aussie" and that Shaun Wane would never moan. I then provide 2 links to prove that Wane does moan and has been guilty of everything Nathan Brown is being accused of.

Also, a couple of years ago when many Wigan fans felt Sam Tomkins was being targeted by opposition defences, you were all talking about him needing more protection from the officials. Now that it is the likes of McIlorum, Flower and Taylor dishing it out, you are telling us to stop being soft and that it is a "man's game."

As for Jeff Lima, I don't recall the particulars of what went on so I can't really comment. However it sounds like you are pretty much proving my point in that you seem to have expected the rules to change for you.

You didn't claim to be perfect I was being facetious.

You are mixing up the hypocrisy of the fans with the club. All fans are hypocritical to a greater or lesser extent.

You were right about Wane and Tomkins though the second link was a bit mild to be fair.

I think I made it clear that rules are rules and however unfair at times we all have to abide by them

I'm not saying that - did you really think that I was? Give me SOME credit.

The point I was making is that the offence occured in a Super League game yet he was banned for the WCC. In soccer if it happened in the Premiership he wouldn't be banned for the European Cup - he would miss a Premiership game. Same as when players are banned from Internationals after a Super League indiscretion, Like Ben Westwood was able to count the Italy friendly as part of his ban. Do you not think that it is a more sensible solution for bans to be effected in the same competition?

Bit early in the morning for words like facetious mate!!

I think Wane is a hypocrite as well in all honesty. He is extremely blinkered; he reminds me of Arsene Wenger at Arsenal. If somebody does something to one of this players then he is the first to moan but when one of his players does it he just so happens not to see it. And before you say it, I know other coaches are guilty of this, but Wane in particular is very selective and inconsistent with his comments.

Wigan fans, as a a general rule, are the most biased individuals I have ever known.

What`s soccer got to do with anything, they only have 11 players in soccer should rugby league follow that as well ?

Oh come on - you understand the point don't you?

I am not, and have never, question his ability as a coach. I just think he comes across poorly with the media. As you say, most coaches will always try and stick up for his own players to the press, but Wane does it blindly, even when it is blatant to everyone else that he is talking nonsense. That's why he comes across as being so biased.

And you're right, I obviously see and hear more from Wigan fans than most others, but certainly on here and other forums, they come across particularly blinkered.

I'm not an expert on the human condition, but I would have thought that all fans are potentially the same.

In Rugby League fans may suffer from a small town mentality (most clubs) there may be bandwagon merchants (who follow the winning team) there are the diehards who have always supported their team, there are increasingly female fans who fall into the above categories as well as adding a civilised element (well some do) there are fans who very rarely go but pontificate on about the sport (I'll admit there are a good few of these on the Wigan boards - maybe on here too, you'd know them). But the simple fact is - there are more Wigan fans around here, so there are more to annoy you.

However I fail to see how we can be any different from yourselves. Prone to all of the things that make all fans annoying at times. If you really believe the things you are saying how can you claim to be fair minded? Maybe you don't - but I get the impression that you are pretty savvy (not being patronising - meant as a compliment).

I think you are over-complicating it a little.

In my experience, Wigan fans have been guilty of being biased, arrogant and blinkered far more than fans of any other team. I have worked with and played in the same team as Widnes, Warrington, Leigh, Leeds and Salford fans so it isn't just a case of I only ever hear from Wiganers or there are more of them so by default they annoy me more.

Put it this way, if you randomly picked 50 fans from every Super League club, I'd be fairly confident that an independent judge would find more biased, arrogant individuals in the Wigan batch.

With regards to why this is, I genuinely believe that the way the club was run in the 80's and early 90's and the arrogance that was generated in that period has a lot to do with it. Many fans from that period had such a huge superiority complex over the whole of Rugby League, they were truly detestable people. They handled their success at that time in such a bad way.

A large amount of that arrogance has been bred into young kids growing up watching Wigan now. I am generalising here I know, but many Wigan fans simply cannot see beyond their own team and they believe they are the biggest and the best at everything they do and if they don't win trophies then it was somebody else's fault.

You beat me to it, I've just edited my original comment!

I think you've probably got a point. Personally I think it is particularly sad when people live vicariously through their chosen team as if them winning had anything to do with them! I think it is also sad that they then think themselves superior to fans from lesser well supported teams. Actually in my book anyone who supports the likes of Leigh, Dewsbury, Rochdale etc etc are what I would call real fans. It's pretty easy to support Wigan and Saints as you will be assured of some great days out each year.

You see it a lot in football with Liverpool and Man Utd fans. Personally I find that a lot of Leeds Rhinos fans can be accused of what you are accusing Wigan fans of.

Apropos of your point - In his book 'Up and Over' Dave Hadfield remarks that in Wigan even a new born baby knows more about the game than you do!!