| FORUMS > St. Helens > Saints financial woes |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Wigan.
'"
Nobody outside Wigan gives a $h1t ...apart from you I suppose being as you live in St Helens  |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Much better news at Wigan.
Accounts for the last financial year (ending Nov 2010 - i.e. the 2010 season) has recently been filed by the club with Companies House.
Main highlights
Well done indeed Rougues. Quite how the club managed to increase revenues by 14% but actually reduce overall costs but increasing salaries is quite a feat, however some of it is down to transfer fees being over £225,000 less than in 2009
What you don't say isClub is still insolvent to the tune of £2.69M in spite of the £572,000 benefit of a 2010 property revaluation.
There is no clue how the £2M loan was repaid e.g. another loan from the parent co LENAGAN INVESTMENTS LIMITED or Barclays bank loan. In other words what is likely in the absence of a share issue is that one debt been replaced by another.
The parent company to which Wigan owed £1.08M is a non trading insolvent company supported by its shareholders (Simon and Ann Lenagan).
Large liabilities for deferred income and accrued expenses amount to over £1.5M well up from previous years.
The club is still under investigation by the Inland Revenue (HMRC) for PAYE/NI issues arising out of payments including expenses to employees. No agreement has been reached with HMRC.
(Hypothetically, if at some stage HMRC sucessfully argue and rule that some expenses payments are in fact to be treated as salary then this may possibly have SC implications for the club and possibly other clubs (having said that, there is no such note about HMRC in Saints 2010 accounts) - of course no-one including myself is accusing Wigan or anyone connected to them of any sort of wrongdoing). This is also a big issue in RU[/list
In the end, Wigan's accounts are not much better than those of Saints apart from the fact that for the first time in a very long time Wigan has made a small - but nonetheless positive - profit after tax of £38K.
Against that, we will own a new shiney stadium. I know which I'd rather have? 
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| Quote: saint at wire "Well done indeed Rougues. Quite how the club managed to increase revenues by 14% but actually reduce overall costs but increasing salaries is quite a feat, however some of it is down to transfer fees being over £225,000 less than in 2009
What you don't say isClub is still insolvent to the tune of £2.69M in spite of the £572,000 benefit of a 2010 property revaluation.
There is no clue how the £2M loan was repaid e.g. another loan from the parent co LENAGAN INVESTMENTS LIMITED or Barclays bank loan. In other words what is likely in the absence of a share issue is that one debt been replaced by another.
The parent company to which Wigan owed £1.08M is a non trading insolvent company supported by its shareholders (Simon and Ann Lenagan).
Large liabilities for deferred income and accrued expenses amount to over £1.5M well up from previous years.
The club is still under investigation by the Inland Revenue (HMRC) for PAYE/NI issues arising out of payments including expenses to employees. No agreement has been reached with HMRC.
(Hypothetically, if at some stage HMRC sucessfully argue and rule that some expenses payments are in fact to be treated as salary then this may possibly have SC implications for the club and possibly other clubs (having said that, there is no such note about HMRC in Saints 2010 accounts) - of course no-one including myself is accusing Wigan or anyone connected to them of any sort of wrongdoing). This is also a big issue in RU[/list
In the end, Wigan's accounts are not much better than those of Saints apart from the fact that for the first time in a very long time Wigan has made a small - but nonetheless positive - profit after tax of £38K.
Against that, we will own a new shiney stadium. I know which I'd rather have? ![]()
Awww youve gone and urinated all over the non trolls parade.
I like you 
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| Quote: Don Brennan "Awww youve gone and urinated all over the non trolls parade.
I like you ![]()
I hope it's been posted on the pies board
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| Quote: other staff "saint at wire wrote
Quote: other staff "You have to be careful about speculating upon salaries and personnel ratios in businesses that are different to ones you've experienced. I've worked in ones where there's 300 employees for a £250m business and ones that have employed nearly 2,000 employees for a business that generated a fraction of that amount i.e. approx £14m. Without knowing the exact ins and outs we get into dangerous generalisations and speculation which serve no real purpose without genuine insight.'"
Hmmm that business with the c£14M turnover; even if all its income went to salaries they would average £7,000 p.a. which seems extremely low?
I do take on board some of what you say but there are some very strange stats when looking at some of our peers e.g.:
Number of employees - Saints 155 (Players and Coaching Staff - 93, Other Staff -62), Wigan - 78 (Players and Coaching Staff - 54, Other Staff - 24).
Why do we have nearly double the number of total staff and 72% more coaches and players to Wigan anyone?
Wigan Turnover £5.49M, Salaries £3.42M
Saints Turnover £4.83M, Salaries £3.81M
Don't get me wrong, in spite of wigan's small profit in 2010 their balance sheet is in similar shape to ours. The difference is that we will have a real revenue generating state of the art stadium next year!
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Wigan and Warrington have acknowledged the HMRC investigation.
Have Saints?
If not why not?
They are in the frame (as indeed are most RL clubs)
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Wigan and Warrington have acknowledged the HMRC investigation.
Have Saints?
If not why not?
They are in the frame (as indeed are most RL clubs)'"
How do you know saints are in the frame? Proof? |
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| Quote: St pete "How do you know saints are in the frame? Proof?'"
Can't and won't divulge my source, but there are a few on here who know what I'm on about.
You should know more than most that I don't post cr@p. This thing regarding HMRC and image rights could cost RL clubs big time and could kill some of them off. |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Can't and won't divulge my source, but there are a few on here who know what I'm on about.
You should know more than most that I don't post cr@p. This thing regarding HMRC and image rights could cost RL clubs big time and could kill some of them off.'"
I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about it |
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| Quote: St pete "I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about it'"
I don't think you would.
Have I ever deceived you? |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Can't and won't divulge my source, but there are a few on here who know what I'm on about.
You should know more than most that I don't post cr@p. This thing regarding HMRC and image rights could cost RL clubs big time and could kill some of them off.'"
Can't be spouting such liabolous comments on here old timer. Doesn't even matter if it's the truth, Sadfish told me.
Ban hammer time...
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| Quote: Saddened! "Can't be spouting such liabolous comments on here old timer. Doesn't even matter if it's the truth, Sadfish told me.
Ban hammer time...
![]()
But he's a bad man.
He plays a Les Paul instead of a Strat, or Tele.
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If I was a Wigan fan I would want to know why their average salary is nearly £44k whilst ours is only roughly £25k. When you add in the fact that they have a very low number of staff compared to ours, some employees are getting a serious pay packet from the club.
A salary cap of £1.65M leaves their salaries at £1.77M. If we say that the player count is around 40 then that leaves 14 coaching staff and 24 'other staff' to have a share of this.
That roughly averages out to £47k. Why is there such a high average wage for what will take into account office workers and shop workers?
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| Quote: BackrowSaint "If I was a Wigan fan I would want to know why their average salary is nearly £44k whilst ours is only roughly £25k. When you add in the fact that they have a very low number of staff compared to ours, some employees are getting a serious pay packet from the club.
A salary cap of £1.65M leaves their salaries at £1.77M. If we say that the player count is around 40 then that leaves 14 coaching staff and 24 'other staff' to have a share of this.
That roughly averages out to £47k. Why is there such a high average wage for what will take into account office workers and shop workers?'"
Easy.
We employ the best conditioners, best physios etc. and the best marketing people. When did saints put adds on t.v.
That costs money.
Wait until you get your new stadium and then see how much it COSTS to put the correct people in place, because if you don't it will turn out to be a big hole. |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Easy.
We employ the best conditioners, best physios etc. and the best marketing people. When did saints put adds on t.v.
That costs money.'"
When did Wigan put adds on tv? |
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