Leeds last won the title in 1992. Sheffield Wednesday last won it in 1930 and Forest in 1978. So the comparison with Saints who were champions just 2 years ago is absolutely ridiculous.

That one grand final success (along with the jammy league leaders shield for being the most consistent team throughout the year that year) is worth so much more than your challenge cup wins over the last 6-7 years. The Challenge Cup is a brilliant trophy to win, but it doesn't mean you're the champions. Being the champions is what it is all about and defines you has a club. The fact is, you've not been champions for 61 years. Widnes have been more successful than you, even Leigh won the league during that time.

Your post is desperate, deluded and at the same time, hilarious mate. By your definition, Leicester must be a bigger club than Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton etc

It just shows the small club mentality of your club that loads of you come on here to try and rub our noses in it instead of focussing on next week.

You never know, you might win, after all they never believed a Brit would ever win Wimbledon again.

Like those clubs, Saints have fallen from grace and are not at present, as big a club as they were- SL through the noughties. You've missed the point, so I'll put it another way: Do you believe that once a club becomes big, it stays big? (If that were true teams like Bolton, Preston Leeds Utd would still be classed as big clubs and that isn't the case.) The size of a club will fluctuate over different eras depending success etc. You've used a brilliant word in 'deluded', the perfect description of Twenty man's belief that Saints are still so much bigger than Warrington. At this point in time there's not much between the two of us, but over the past 6/ 7 years the balance has shifted and an outsider looking in would see the stats, the players signed etc etc and think that we were at least on par. Are Bradford Bulls still a big club?

My post may be hilarious and deluded to you, but only because you haven't taken the point I'm making regarding the size of a club changing at different points in history. By the way, in the past 6-7 years we've won 2 league leaders Shields as well as the 3 challenge cups.

Leicester have had one good year. I'd say Wire overall have had the better last 7 years. 7 years was enough time to see Leeds be overtaken by the likes of Chelsea as a bigger club. I'm not saying we're any bigger or any less, I don't really know, so perhaps you can help me out?- why have better players been attracted to our club in this time period if your club is bigger and better? If your club is bigger and better, why are our silverware hauls comparative:saints 1gf and 1ll v wire 3 cc and 2 ll? Why do wire have a higher average attendance if saints are the bigger and better club?

You call me deluded, but how long have you had that entertainers tag at the top of your forum page and when are you going to move it? Surely that goes against the trade descriptions act?

Where we now have a level playing field (Professional) in the all time super league era it looks as though Warrington will become a top 4 club next season in 2017, a big club is one that can stay competitive with success in the top flight throughout an extensive era.

The All TIME Super League Table, is as follows:-

1 St Helens 812
2 Wigan 783
3 Leeds 741
4 Bradford 617
5 Warrington 614
6 Hull 536

Trophy Success over the Superleague Era as follows:

1 St Helens
2 Leeds
3 Wigan
4 Bradford
5 Warrington

I suggest you come back next year if you win Superleague, then you might have some valid points to back up your claims.

Footnote: If you do win Superleague myself and many of the saints fans will be the first ones to congratulate you on your forum, Superleague Champions is awesome and enormous once you achieve that, I reckon the anxious and abrasive comments from Warrington fans might show a reduction once this is achieved.

I'd never doubt that. Saints are a top club with a rich trophy count in the last 60 years. But you won 1 championship and no Challenge Cups (with no World Club Challenges back then) in your first 80 years.

Cas have never won a championship and that's not embarrassing, they're a decent club who have won 4 CCs. You'd never catch me belittling Cas for never having been champions in their history. But Saints fans are the absolute worst for belittling Wire's achievements and are obsessed with this championship drought of ours yet we have been more successful in the last 62 years than Saints were in your first 80 years, so are you saying that for well over half of your club's existence you were an embarrassment?

I hate St Helens with a passion, but only some one kidding themselves would suggest Warrington are a bigger club.
The biggest 3 teams in English Rugby are Wigan,Leeds & Saints.
I think it would take a sustained period of success for Warrington to have any claim at all.

See Judder man's beautifully articulated reply.


Couldn't care less about Warrington or their lack of success, but I'll certainly attempt to remind the fans of it when they choose to come on our forum and gloat not about a victory, but about the shoddy officiating.

A big club is a team when you scroll your finger down your fixture list, and tap it on their name, making a mental note of when you're playing them. Saints fans do that with Wigan and Leeds. When we see Warrington's name we just think, 'best not take my car to that one'.

To get across the car park,Kevlar clothing and a crash hat ordered for next season!!!

How do we define 'biggest clubs'?

My take fwiw over the SL period
Trophies - Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Bradford
No. of fans - Wigan, Leeds, Hull
Turnover / profit (my guess) - Leeds, Wire, maybe Wigan
Youth development (not just where youngsters come from) - Wigan, Leeds, maybe Wire and not sure about Saints

Why would you cherry pick 7 years randomly as a comparison point? Is that because you coincidentally won your first recent trophy 7 years ago? Seems a bit convenient to me. As a comparison point, it would make much more sense to either cover the last 10 years (3 Challenge cups, 4 LLS and 2 SL titles for us vs 3 challenge cups and 2 LLS for you) or 5 years (1 LLS & 1 SL title for us vs 1 challenge cup & 2 LLS for you) and you've hardly eclipsed us in any of those comparisons. And where are the facts backing up your apparently higher average attendance? That's the first I've heard of it. Not calling you a liar but colour me skeptical. 12k for a semi-final (with 3.5k being from away fans) hardly screams big club.

In terms of attendance are we just picking out this season or are we going to go on the past don't know how many years? Because Saints have had bigger average attendances than Hull, especially since 96. Happy to be corrected on that.

In the current squad, you have Lomax, Makinson, Percival, Swift, Roby, Richards, Savelio, Thompson, Greenwood, Fleming, Knowles with the likes of Bailey, Wellington, Davies, Ashworth also making appearances this season...they all came through the youth development. There is plenty of talent playing elsewhere in SL and the NRL who came through our youth system. Our u-19's have just won the Grand Final and gone through the regular season unbeaten.

'Maybe' Wigan as you put it, have also produced a conveyor belt of continuous talent.

Not sure on our youth development?



Off the top of my head - lomax, Makinson, Percival, swift, Jamie Foster, Lee gaskell, Jamie Ellis, Chris dean, Wellington, ashworth, Jamie Ellis, Eastmond, James Graham, James Roby, Keiron Cunningham, Paul Wellens, Greenwood, Thompson, Wheeler, Richards, Knowles, emm it, Josh Jones, savilo, dixon, Ashurst, tyrer, Armstrong

That's just off top my head so we not done bad

Its not about "biggest club" the term is "A Big Club" by way of stature in the game from the youngsters through to the senior professionals. In stature Bradford, Saints and Leeds have had long periods of domination, Wigan have had a couple of shorter periods of domination all at the highest competition level.
Hull and Warrington have been front runners throughout the season and are knocking on the door, but they have not been involved in a high percentage (60%) of play off games throughout the 19 years concept.

I,m assuming Youth Development (Saints) is just a wind up.