We can draw a line under Ben Flower the individual but I think there will be a RFL review on possibly the Wigan club itself on its practices and how Mr Wane has coerced certain individuals to perform uncontrolled agressions. Mc Manus touched on the subject in his statement and I think this is what he was referencing to but structured to all clubs via the RFL.

Question for you - do you think that Shaun Wane is the only coach to preach 'uncontrolled aggression' (or maybe he's the only one stupid enough to get filmed doing so)?

Strange how Wigan's 'uncontrolled aggression' hasn't been picked up by refs before Saturday, Flower being the first red card of the season. If Masoe had connected with Gelling's head in the first set, as was his intention, we might be discussing Saints 'uncontrolled aggression instead. Glass houses my friend.

a) if Masoe had connected with gellings head, it would of been exactly the same as every tackle as SOL did on Masoe (I don't know what Masoe did to hack SOL off but he did a fantastic job of frustrating him out of the game imo) - but this is my biggest pet hate about rugby fans - if your player did something illegal than this thing that actually happened would be okay - well Masoe didn't connect (unlike SOL did on several occasions without being penalised.)

b) how do you know it was Masoes intention? Seems to me Saints plan was to rattle the cage knowing Wigan would overstep the mark and it would throw them off the game plan. I don't think it was ever our intention to decapitate anyone, and even if it was, Gelling would not of been our target!

C) no, let's not be naive, I'm sure there are other coaches who try and be motivators in that way. However, Wane has been the most vocal and open about it. He was the first person I've ever known to associate the word "hate" towards a saints wigan Derby. I don't hate wigan, I always thought we were above that. By taking it to that level trouble is always going to start.

McManus phrased it well. It needs looking at by all clubs at all levels. Player safety is paramount and it's quite clear where the line is.

Wigan are clearly the worst at this in SL however. They devised most of the awful techniques like attacking the standing leg knee joint under Maguire and it's continued under Wane. It won't take much for Wigan to fix and go back to succeeding legally. I think Leneghan can see this now, I'll bet he massively regrets the Wigan documentary and it's content and I'll bet he's had a word with Wane about how they go about things.

I thought at the time that the doco could come back to haunt them when a coach is basically saying you have a free reign to cause damage

No it wouldn't. We got a penalty.

His intent was clear.

Agree with you about the hating thing. I posted at the time that it was unnecessary, and quite simply untrue. I hope he learns from all this because he hasn't come out of it at all well.

I don't believe that Wigan are any dirtier than any other team. The seasonal penalty count and sin bin and sending off count rather cinfirms this.

And just to add Maguire didn't start the third man in tactic it was Brown at Huddersfield. Good coaching I'm afraid to say.

Maybe we should use this as a yard stick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj57GvEj2DI

Maybe we should use this as a yard stick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj57GvEj2DI

Yep not one of them stooped so low as to hit an unconscious player. But I'm sure if you want to go back over 20 years, then you will find plenty of Wiganers doing equally nasty shots. Skerritt had a whole school of dirty tactics.

But well done for going off topic.

Or maybe talk about Ken Gee, Joe Egan or Frank Collier perhaps.
Quite silly all this, as you say, not one mentioned would have hit an unconscious player like Flower did. Can't change the facts I'm afraid.

Barrie Mac was a nice clean player also. Hock and Newton was lovely clean players

It isn't going off topic at all. Most of this thread has been turned into a general dig at Wigan and not about the original topic. I am merely pointing with good illustration that all clubs use aggressive defence which sometimes oversteps the mark. It's a long way down from that moral high horse!

It was actually started by Mike Gregory, the late Terry Newton mentions it in his book ="AboveusonlypieAnd just to add Maguire didn't start the third man in tactic it was Brown at Huddersfield. Good coaching I'm afraid to say.'"