True. Hopefully something is being done in the background to sort out next season.

Simplistic. Im sure Ive just answered that. We've lost a lot more matches for many reasons. One being our injury list. Take a look at Wigans win percentage without Sam Tomkins. We've gone months without any of our recognised pivots, in Lomax, & Roby, throwing in Wello & Wheeler at to boot. Do you not think we'd be higher up the table had we enjoyed a little more luck with injuries?

Re Ellis its nothing to do with who he plays for. He isn't good enough. Released, doing nothing & is Joe Average. "So successful in retaining our younger players" - weve released those who werent up to the required standard.

I wouldn't swap the likes of Ashurst or Dixon for Thompson, Walker or Greenwood. Percival & Swift are light years ahead of heartless Foster. Which of these released juniors are the answers to our problems? Because no other top 5-6 club wanted them.

Retention is only part of the problem, duff signings from Simmons (Perry & Hohaia) has massively damaged us, especially taking up quota spots. Injuries are another.

Leeds needed to loan a player last year.His name was Lunt - from youre analogy does that mean Leeds have failed in recruitment/retention decisions too? Maybe like us in Charnock & Yates they didnt feel like McShane & Ward were quite ready?
Think we both bring through a similar amount of junior prospects.

I don't think anyone looks down on Matty Smith. He's a pretty good scrum half with a mighty boot on him. I don't think anyone has him down as a world beater, either.

With hindsight, we would all have liked to have kept him, but no one in their right mind would chosen him over Eastmond. Unfortunately, the club didn't protect themselves and we ended up screwed.

So after Smith, we've got Ellis and Gaskell as half backs we've released. Playing for Cas and Salford. Both of whom are strongly rumoured to have left more due to none rugby issues.

Do you agree Ashe isnt quite good enough then, if you hope we are looking to sort out a six next year? I hear Ashe might be off to London Broncos, if so would he be added to youre list of saints juniors dotted around superleague weve failed to retain?

Like Ellis another who isnt good enough. Clear as day, & akin to many others that have gone before him, we could "retain" them for the next 10 years & they still wouldn't be good enough.

What is going on at Saints when we sign a player for a month? As SaintsFan has stated it could take a while for him to fit in making the signing a waste of time. Then again we are getting closer to season ticket renewal time.

World beaters are very rare IMO. Mostly we have great down to poor with the majority somewhere in between. Matty Smith offers just what we are now needing but we let him go and at the time we let him go I was one of those who objected to it (and of course was ridiculed for objecting). I saw Eastmond as flashy but Smith as steady. Both are fine but Saints went either/or and that was their mistake. And as I said in the post above, my original comment was a criticism of Saints' retention policy. This is a good example of it.


Rumours shmoomers. While we can't keep all our playing staff - just isn't possible for practical reasons apart from anything else - to let Gaskell go and leave ourselves entirely and completely without a functioning specialist six was simply a dumb decision. No club with any sense does that.

Name the ones that are actually good enough for a club that should be aiming for the top few? Gaskell cant even get in the halves for salford, ellis had to go via leigh to cas because of off field issues (and isnt good enough anyway) and briers I wouldn't have had over martyn or longy. The only slight debate here is Matty Smith however we put all our eggs in the xfactor basket with Eastmond and it didnt come off. If we'd have kept Smith and lost Eastmond to another club at that time it'd have been worse

I agree its pretty embarrassing that we've gone to a rival club for help. On the other hand, we are in dire need of a halfback.

Its a risk but its one we have to take.

Except he was given a chance at the start of the season & was woeful. He never got involved & is regarded by the coaching staff as a bit of a maverick that doesn't stick to game plans or what is being asked of him & was a bit of a "coach killer".

If we see no future in Gaskell & he wasn't doing anything to warrant his place in the side why keep him?

I've only seen him play, what, two games this season? So my answer would be I simply don't know as he hasn't been given long enough for me to fairly assess.

How to twist things!! Salford didn't NEED a halfback. They have three already! They needed a centre and Gaskell has played at centre before. He seems to be doing fine for them.

When we let smith go we had pryce and eastmond, Lomax and wheeler coming through behind. You can't keep everyone, Smith wanted first team rugby and we couldnt guarantee that

We do have a 6 at the club. He's injured. Gaskell can't even get in at 6 at salford...

They have a kid, mcgoldrick who is hit and miss and average at best, and foran whos not long been there. Salford came after Gaskell, if they thought he was any use as a 6 he'd play there. Open your eyes, remove yourself from his colon and smell the coffee. He's not as good at 6 as you think

Smith was still around when Eastmond was injured. That's how he ended up playing in a Grand Final for us before we binned him off for good. Was Pryce injured at that time too? He certainly was the following season.


As said above, Gaskell wasn't needed at 6. They have three halfbacks in Sneyd, Foran and Fages. He was needed at centre and he has played there before. He's doing a good job for them.

Their three halfbacks are Foran (recruited by Vievers), Sneyd and Fages. They have mixed and matched their halfbacks, McGoldrick slipping in there for experience, just as we have Wilkin there for experience. As I've now said three times, they needed a centre, not a halfback.

No need for the childish comments either, although I don't expect much more from you to be honest.