Just back from Manchester. Can someone please book a taxi for Brown?

As much as I dislike them and him, Wane wouldn't have let his mob serve up such a p*ss poor performance.

I'd simply ask the players if they give a toss, if they don't theres the door.

Its quite simply some of the players arent of the desired standard but i'm sorry theres no excuse for not giving it all every week, there isn't one bit of fight or pride in that squad and looking back not one of them currently deserves to wear the shirt let alone carry the badge. There's not one bit of aggression between the lot of them on the field and sometimes you need a nasty person to just give the side a lift, unfortunately we lack that.

Someone needs to stick their neck out and be a leader, it's quite clear that nobody is willing to do so. Could imagine the rollocking Sculthorpe even Graham would have given them behind the sticks today after conceding those disgraceful tries.

Brown can't coach motivation into them but he could at least exude it for our sakes and get a little sodding angry once in a while.

Disheartened, underwhelmed, disappointed and frustrated is what im feeling now.

not sure I'd agree with that, the 2010 side was a truly great side. Let's reserve judgement until the end of the year. The will to win of the current side is unbelievable though, there's almost a desperation to avoid being beaten that reminds me of Edwards in his pomp.

Getting back to Saints, they should follow the Maguire/Wane approach. Get Wellens - a man that understands the ethos of Saints just like Wane understands Wigan - to hang up his boots and be the assistant to a bright young Aussie coach with some new ideas to freshen things up. That's what you should do, Fingers crossed McManus does something else!

I'll be fair, conditioning, structure, fitness, desire, and intensity are the responsibilities of all the coaching staff, with brown merely being the head. I've long said our application of sports science and the conditioning of our players has been steadily declining since Apollo left. We've tried removing the head several times, and the same problems crop up over and over. We all bang on about us having better players than this team and that team - and I still believe we have one of the best group of players in the league - what let's us down is our conditioning and fitness and aggression. If we could have a team frothing at the mouth every time they took to the field, and the fitness to play at that level on and on, we could take anyone comfortably (imo) - but without a complete overhaul of the coaching team, improve our conditioning 10 fold, and get structures in place, a coach able to get the team frothing at the mouth won't make a difference.

Not just him tho mate, I could list 80% of this squad that's not good enough. People got carried away with the early wins but let's be honest we've played well prob 3 times all year.


I hope people will now see what me and few orhers have been saying. We are port poor team.

I remember Wigan demolishing Saints (apart from the 92 side you had with Kevin Ward in it, which was a great side and came very close to a league title) but not us all being full time and Saints being a team of part timers only. Wigan went full time in 92 i think, by which time most of your players were full time. No one made a fuss about it at the time, other than Ian Lucas having to stop working in an antique shop there wasn't much press interest. Leeds went full time around the same time (not that it helped them much).

You're right though about the fact that the likes of Cooper, Bishop, Dwyer, Nickle etc would have given it 100%. No one would ever have questioned their commitment.

That interview with Wellens at the end is damning. That's a pro thats been there and won it all and he shouldn't have to come out and say that, the anger in is voice is quite incredible really.

Thanks Paul for saying what we are all thinking.

All this crap about how good we are on paper is now becoming as embarrassing as the players.

The squad is full if crap that ain't good enough. It's not the best on paper, it's not even 4th best on paper.

He sounded like a not too far in the future, caretaker coach.

Am on holiday in America, so I missed Wellens' comments. What did he say?

TBF, I could smell Saints from NYC.

His first sentence was
" I'm gonna have to watch what i say here but that was embarrassing from us."
He then went on to say that everyone was talking about us being back but we only played good for 4-5 weeks and that if we want to win the comp or reach the playoffs we have to turn up each week with the right attitude.
Then talked of the fans giving them good support and spending money and they "have to deliver better than that because it was quite frankly embarrassing from us today."
More quotes include "If you start like that in a playoff game or a grand final you're toast you're gone and watching at home from your sofa and the sooner we realise that the better because that's not good enough"

He talked of the Leeds & Wigan attitude being top class and said that wasn't there with us in today's game.

Heavy stuff.

There is also an interview on Redvee where he seems to question some of the players match preparations.
Post 190 on the Saints v Wolves match thread.

Oh right, such as who? The only players I can think of are Wellens and Wilkin? I can't see Walsh being involved in that as he's new, I can't see Sia, Manu etc being involved in that.

The "old guard" - don't ask who consists of the "old guard" because people get very flustered at the suggestion that it doesn't explain all our woes, but it's definitely them.