I agree with Brown, we turned up expecting it to happen. You can't just expect it to happen, you have to make it happen.

I think Brown wanted to send a message out that we are contenders and langtree park isn't the walk in the park it has been.

I'm told that Brown had his biggest rant since he came to saints at half time last night.

The defence was tip top at Wire after the first couple of minutes so I find that comment a bit odd. Wire were camped out on the line with back to back penalties and couldn't score. The second try was a flukey effort.

Its early days and we have played in fits and starts but is 4 points from 2 games and we have yet to click so that augers well.

Tip top that they scored early on when they moved it wide?

We've sacrificed a bit of defensive stability out wide for attacking flair - hence why Percival is getting the nod and jones has been pushed inside. We're moving back towards a style of play that this forum is named after!

In big games, our attitude needs to be better than it was against hull, but that's been recognised by all.

I hope our tip top defence is a little better at home against the bigger clubs like hudds, Wigan and Leeds because conceding 22 at home in those conditions isn't exactly "tip top".

If we tackle that "tip top" when up against the likes of Tom Briscoe, Ryan Hall, Joel moon and Watkins, we will need to score a lot of points to win.

Looking forward we have a decent run of games ahead of us.

So plenty of time to sharpen up.

Our toughest game is likely to be Catalan which is at home.

Wigan whilst finding the experience good, will not benefit from the journey there and back.

If you look down our fixtures we have had a generous opening half of the year. Barr Warrington all the favourites we play at home. It will be the second half of the season where we have to travel away to the top teams where we will need to be on tip top form. You always get a little advantage at home with the calls.

....and never looked liked scoring for the next 78 minutes only a freak bounce off the posts got them over that was my point.

22 points at home isn't good enough even in sunny conditions, never mind the throwing down rain. The ease they opened us up is a worry.

Defence is about attitude - and our attitude was wrong. Trust in brown to sort it out, we've proven we can do it - our opening game proved that.

There are still far more positives than negatives from the start of this season, and we have a decent run of games to work on things, and out things right, if were still shipping 22 points a game in round 25, that's when we should start to worry.

Also if it's a worry to be shipping 22 points in pouring rain, what's it to be conceding 34!?

Couple of points here.

At Warrington Saints tackle completion rate was 96%- what percentage would you consider to be good defence?

Sept 1986 St Helens 112 Carlisle 0 - was our defence outstanding that night?

This thread is called "tonight's game".

Last night the defence was awful. We can't handle teams with dummy runners, it was a problem all last year. We are opened up far to easy. Hull ain't a good team and tore us to shreds at times.

The difference is last year we wouldn't of been able to turn it around at half time. Or score as many tries as we have.

Hull only finished a couple of points behind us last year and are probably looking to finish 6th again this year. They seem a much more competent team, capable of following a game plan. There's a big gap between the top 5 and the rest, but not so big that complacency is acceptable. The coach identified the problem, and we should see it rectified in the coming weeks.

There's no point throwing up the white flag yet!

I'm not throwing the white flag or calling us but we are far from perfect and some people getting far to carried away.


It's great to get the win when not played well, last year we couldn't do that. It's great to be putting points on the board and not the bore fest we had at langtree last year.

Agreed, though I don't think I've seen too many people (that are saints fans) getting carried away. There are definitely things to improve our game, but on the showings so far, I feel we're capable of doing that - and it's a key difference from other years, where I've just felt like we've struggled.

Attitude was a big thing last night, and hopefully we won't see that again (and from the way brown was talking it won't) - our style of play was still impressive given the conditions though!

We gave hull an opportunity (as we always seem to do) but we rescued the situation. The coach needs plaudits for that, and the senior players are getting credit too. Hopefully we can kick on and build some momentum.

Are you from Widnes ?