9th in June, stop trying to spin it.

How long does Brown get exactly? Does he get the entire season regardless of performances (Which have been diabolical). This squad is pretty much the same one that finished 3rd under Rush last season, and most considered him to have done no more than a solid job.

You will no doubt quote the injuries, but our worst performances this season have come when we've had decent sides playing. Huddersfield at home first game of the season springs to mind, we're miles off where we should be even if everyone was playing.

If we miss out on the play offs this season, does Brown keep his job?

Without a shadow of a doubt Brown keeps his job. Anyone with half a brain knew this was a tough job fue to previous coaches mistakes and shocking recruitment and retention.

He took over a club with no halves and no props! Plus we've had absolute shocking injuries.

If Brown is give time and support by McManus, I've no doubt he will bring back the good days but I still stand by what I said two seasons ago, Royce will set us back 3 years and that IMO is what it will take.

Well it was temporal semantics?

The rest of the post is a different discussion. But if you want to talk performances v results. Then I'll take an improved performance. A rubbish win just suggests the following week another loss is on the way. An improvement from our team would give me more confidence of a finish at 5 or 6.

It's a better team than we had in 2012, actually.

Brown will keep his job simply because McManus has staked his reputation on him. This is what comes with not interviewing for the coaching job.

In addition to that of course is the fact that Brown has a three year deal so the club will not be able to afford to pay him off until his third year. We could end up bottom of the table this year and next and Brown would still be in a job.

Can't recall us having to play kids like Percival, swift, Greenwood, Thompson, Walker, charnock, Hande, Tilley most weeks and don't recall having a secondrow at scrumhalf either.

I also don't recall having to being two players in on loan either as we was rock bottom.

If your beloved Royce had signed a proper halfback, proper prop we wouldn't be in the mess. Its been left to Brown to deal with the halfback problem, perry, Laffranchi, TP and non of this was created by him.

I'm not spinning anything. Just stating how it is, or now how it was. By tomorrow it could change again. As for Brown. For me he has until 10 games into next year.

As for diabolical performances. It's just not the case. Pre easter we were improving and being a lot more exciting than last year. Saddenediis the 24 hour tabloid news for saints. Wanting impossible solutions yesterday. Of what brown has had control over.
Walmsley good
Turner good
Manu good
Percival promoted good
Lomax from 7 to fb good.
Walker Thompson good.
Gaskell out wrong
Dropping laffranchi from front row good
Keeping wellens in the starting 13 at any cost I wouldn't.
Bringing a 6 in as soon as he could

In the end I'm liking the way he is pushing us. I'm still expecting a better finish. But unlike yourself I'm not demanding a grand final win in June 2013.

Roby on the bench, Turner at Stand Off and Wilkin at Loose.

Full team shortly.

No Makinson

O'Brien starts.

1.) Paul Wellens
2.) Ade Gardner
19.) Josh Jones
30.) Mark Percival
5.) Francis Meli

3.) Jordan Turner
37.) Gareth O'Brien

10.) LMS
6.) Lance Hohaia
11.) Tony Puletua
4.) Sia Soliola
13.) Willie Manu
12.) Jon Wilkin

9.) James Roby
16.) Paul Clough
25.) Alex Walmsley
33.) Luke Thompson

Surprised by that, but not going to write off our chances before we even kick off. Not sure about Makinson's omission or why Turner is only now moving to SO though.

Where does this idea that Turner can play in the halves come from?

Will you ever forgive McManus for sacking Royce? You just sound like a petty little child everytime you bang this particular drum, it is extremely boring.

Sure he's played there before. Not sure who for though. England Knights springs to mind but not 100%.

Played for the knights at stand off, he was also goal kicker and kicked 11 from 11 (I think)